26 Dec 2019

Ironic Argument From Jonah Goldberg

Politics, Religious, Trump 7 Comments

I guess Jonah is at least consistent when it comes to impeachment. He is deploying the standard right-winger defense of the judicial system: “If the cops arrest you, you must have done something.”

In any event, I agree that it’s in poor taste for Republicans to bring up the trial of Jesus when talking about impeachment–though strictly speaking, they weren’t saying, “Trump is as/more innocent than Jesus”–but this is actually ironic when Jonah argues: “Similarly, Trump’s total refusal to cooperate with an impeachment investigation may or may not be an impeachable offense. But if he were as innocent as Jesus, he wouldn’t be behaving as if he has something to hide.”

Does anyone else familiar with the gospel accounts find that ironic, or am I predisposed to quibble with Jonah Goldberg?

7 Responses to “Ironic Argument From Jonah Goldberg”

  1. Daniel Kuehn says:

    I agree completely with you that the “if he was innocent he wouldn’t be behaving as if he has something to hide” argument is a bad one.

    After all, even if he were completely innocent he should still be responsive to subpoena’s and acting like he’s above the law is bad. No need to bring in “behaving like he has something to hide” at all!

    As it so happens I think the evidence makes it clear he is guilty and does have something to hide and that’s probably why he’s acting the way he is, but all of that is beside the point because even innocence is no excuse for lawlessness.

  2. Khodge says:

    1) Not mutually exclusive although I find “ironic” used far too often.

    2) Trump sounds like he always sounds; I don’t find Jesus’ response consistent with what is normal, however it does depend on which gospel you are reading (cf Mark’s Messianic secret). So, at best,vJonah is overstating his case (a prerogative of an opinion writer.

    • Bob Murphy says:

      I have no idea what you’re trying to say here Khodge. It sounds like you’re saying, “Yes I agree Bob that Jonah is wrong but I think that’s OK so I disagree with you Bob.”

  3. Bitter Clinger says:

    Jonah is a “Never Trumper” and he admits he doesn’t like Trump because of who he is, not what he does. President Obama walked, talked, and looked like a president. He was seen to be THE ONE to lead us from the wilderness. When his anointed replacement lost the election after spending $1.2 billion to her opponent’s $600 million Jonah lost his mind.

    Trump is a clown, a buffoon, a reality TV star. But to add insult to injury he did what President Obama promised but could not deliver. He gave us almost 3% growth, 3.5 percent unemployment (with a rising labor participation rate), and the highest stock market in history. All during a time of unprecedented sabotage, obstruction, and persecution. It wasn’t that Obama lied, during his eight years as president, he never ever told the truth.

    The Biblical story to use is not about Christ. It is the rise of David in 1 Samuel. Before the monarchy, Israel had Judges who were Samuel’s sons. Since at least half the people to go before a Judge came away unhappy (sometimes they both do) the people said that because they were cowards, lazy, and irresponsible they wanted a King like the other nations of the world to think and act for them. Jehovah (The accepted English pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton YHWH) told Samuel that they were not rejecting Samuel, they were rejecting Jehovah.

    1 Samuel 8:19 19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us, think for us, support us, and to go out before us and fight our battles.”

    Note: Verses 1 Samuel 8:10-18 are well worth reading because Samuel explains the cost of a King but are too long to quote here.

    Samuel then picked Saul as the first King because he looked like a King.

    1 Sam 9:2 2 And he had a son whose name was Saul, A handsome young man. There was not a man among the people of Israel more handsome than he. From his shoulders upward he was taller than any of the people.

    As we know Saul didn’t turn out well, so Jehovah sent Samuel to pick someone else. He picked David even though David was a deeply flawed human being. That being said, David ended up being the ancestor for both Jehovah’s Only Begotten Son’s biological parent and his step parent. The ‘pull quote’ for how David was chosen is:

    1 Samuel 16:7 7 But Jehovah said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or height, for I have rejected him; Jehovah does not see as man does. For man sees the outward appearance, but Jehovah sees the heart.”

    I don’t tell this story as theology but simply as a 3,000 year old tale told by late Bronze Age/early Iron Age goat herders. It is a story of greed, lust, envy, and deceit. It is so appropriate today.

  4. Harold says:

    The impeachment is more like the indictment. Grand juries do not get to hear the defence. They decide if there is a case to answer. Republicans are demanding “due process” innappropraitely. That occurs in the trial, when it would be grand if the judges and jurors would accept that they should at least pretend to be impartial. We have not got to the trial yet, where a reasonable analogy would be the disciples acting as judge and jury. Pilate would not get a look in.

    Trump has committed an abuse of power. Read the transcript. That much is clear. Whether this is impeachable is a political descision, but if it is not, then I don’t know what would be.

    • Tel says:

      There’s nothing in that transcript remotely close to abuse of power.

      Trump pointed out that Joe Biden had been bragging about getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired (which is true) in order to protect his son Hunter from investigation into pocket stuffing activity (almost certainly also true, and precisely the kind of activity that needs investigating) then Trump requested that the investigation get re-opened. Zelensky agreed with everything Trump put forward and said he already had a new prosecutor lined up and ready to go.


      There’s the background on why there are excellent reasons to believe Hunter Biden was crooked. This investigation is the kind of “draining the swamp” that the American people voted for.

      If there’s any dirt on Joe Biden then he dug it himself by openly bragging about it, and Hunter Biden even admitted that he only got the job because of his dad, not because he was qualified to work in the oil and gas industry. Besides that, it’s a good thing for this kind of information to come out before an election. Sheesh the Democrats turned every available stone looking for dirt on their opponents (particularly Trump) and they used all the apparatus of government including the CIA and FBI to do their digging. Since when has an electoral candidate been immune to investigation? Name any candidate in history that has been entitled to protection where no one is allowed to check their background. Just name one.

      • skylien says:

        Right, and wasn’t Obama spying on Trump during his campaign? I mean come on the double standards are really glaring here.

        You know what this is, this is like all those tons of laws that technically make everyone a criminal. E.g. I bet you that in my country at least 90% have cheated on taxes this or that way at least once in their live. Now for the most part this kind of stuff to a certain amount is just tolerated by the officials, but it comes in handy if you become a political problem, then you get crucified for it.

        I am absolutely amazed that they couldn’t get Trump on any of his business dealings. I was sure he has a lot or at least some dirt there, but seeing how basically the complete deep state can’t nail him there, must mean Trump wasn’t. I have never ever seen anything more pathetic as the attacks on Trump. Especially if you consider what Bush, Obama, and both Clintons did.

        If Trump gets impeached for this, every effing President would habe been needed to be impeached.

Leave a Reply