Christian Doctrines Hang Together
One of the best insights I drew from a Bible study series I once attended was that you can’t pick and choose from the doctrines of Christianity. If you do, the whole thing collapses.
In the present post, I’ll walk through four elements of Christianity, at least as it is practiced in my church. Each element, viewed in isolation, understandably looks suspicious or even awful to a cynic. But when you put all four together, it makes possible a synthesis that is beautiful and awe-inspiring.
(1) Christians dwell on the omnipotence of God. They sing songs praising His mighty power. (When people literally worship power in other contexts, it is abominable.)
(2) If you have to rely on your own merit, you cannot escape hell. The doctrine of original sin says that you don’t even have a chance. (That sounds horrible.)
(3) God wanted the innocent Jesus to be punished for others’ crimes. (That sounds awful.)
(4) What God does is good, period. We might not understand why, and we might agree that if a human did comparable things–like ordering the slaughter of infants–it would be monstrous, but if God does something, it is good. (This sounds like moral relativism, which is monstrous.)
But now let’s put them together:
God effectively says, “To spend paradise with Me, you must be perfect as I am.” This is impossible, because you cannot help but sin. But Jesus led a perfect life, and volunteers to absorb your sins such that you are now blameless. Thus by Jesus’ sacrifice made out of infinite love, all of us can enjoy eternal bliss.
This bargain sounds very attractive, but is it just? It feels like we’re cheating. No need to worry, of course it’s just: It’s God’s plan, and He only takes actions that are good.
But c’mon, can God really set up a system like this, which defies our intuition? Yes, of course He can: He’s God. If He says this is the arrangement, then He’s right, it is.
What motivated my thoughts above was the consideration that a psychological function (perhaps one of several) of going to church and singing “Praise & Worship” songs–which stress the four points above–is to make a person really believe it.
I realize this might be hard for atheists/agnostics to understand, but even honest-to-goodness Bible-believing Christians often have doubts, and I don’t just mean things like, “Hmm, do I really think a guy came back from the dead?” No, I also mean doubts like, “I don’t care what the Bible says, I don’t think God could possibly forgive me for that.”
And so, for people with that fear, it offers indescribable relief to remember that God can do anything, and that if He decides your past sin is no longer a strike against you, then it isn’t. Period. You can move on with your life, and dedicate it to His glory.
God is truly kind! I now live a life free of guilt of a sinful past!
Dr. Kinsella (who is an atheist) had an interesting point. He says that infinite punishment (hell) is not proportionate to a finite sin (no matter how monstrous, it’s still finite).
Hi Jan,
Are you and Stephan saying the average man only sins once in a lifetime?
Whether you sin once or thousands of times, God did indeed provide an easy button, a get out of jail free card. All you need to do is have faith then turn and walk the other way.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life
John 1: 5-10
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[b] sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
Hi Gamble,
No, that’s not what I am saying. What he is saying is suppose someone commits the most atrocious of crimes every day of his life, like Hitler or Truman he kills thousands or millions of innocent people and never accepts God and never has faith in him.
Still, such a monster killed thousands or millions – not an infinite number of people. There can always be someone who kills even more people but the punishment is the same: hell for eternity. It doesn’t sound proportionate and therefore just.
Also, it sounds to me that to avoid hell for eternity, you can lead as wicked life as pleases you and as long as you spend the last five minutes on your deathbed apologizing and praying to God for forgiveness, you should be fine. On the other hand, if you live a generally good life with the occasional sin such as envy or the occasional lie but you are an atheist, you’re screwed.
I do realize that these are so obvious objections that people so smart as Dr Murphy must have an answer. I just haven’t seen it (I don’t really spend much time thinking about these things though.)
I mean according to this Truman (Baptist) should be in Heaven while Rothbard (atheist) should be in Hell – doesn’t sound fair to me 🙂
If Christ was just EVERYBODY would be in hell.
But he chose to give mercy which is undeserved.
Justice equals perfect obedience or Hell.. That is the objective standard. God’s standard.
imperfect humans like Christians prefer mercy than justice in the final judgement.
Your are invited think about please if you do desire.
Great stuff Bob.
*Your are invited think about it if you so desire.
Posting through the phone is a pain.
Thanks JNCU. Are you saying you go to Hell as a default position just by virtue of being born? Do I understand it correctly that the ultimate sin by definition is “not accepting Gog” while mass murder can be forgiven?
Not by just being born, but by sinning. If someone never sins, it immediately goes to heaven when dead and after final judgment.
I have heard theologians saying the not accepting Christ before dead is the unpardonable sin. I have not explore that one.
Mass murder is forgivable. The degree of evil just has to do with degree of punishment in hell. If someone repents why should not God forgive him?
By accepting Christ, which always involves honest repentance, the mass murder would accept Christ punishment on his behalf. God would have nothing against him.
To be honest I doubt people that commit mass murder honestly repent.
But lets say a mass murder repents honestly. And God knows is genuine. God knows that he would try to make reparations if given the opportunity or something like that. Why should he not be forgiven?
From the Christian stand point even being mad at our brothers in Christ, the true ones, is murder. In God’s eyes we are all mass murders or at least very close.
His requirement is perfection or Christ perfect righteousness. No curve grading : )
Just quick. All sin is against God. This is his Universe so everything we do us for or against him, it if you wish. So every sin has eternal implications.
We cannot appropriately use human examples because our relationships are on equal ground. With God we owe him everything and he owes us nothing.
By the way there us a Bible verse that teaches that people that sin more accumulate wrath for themselves. So they would be punish eternally but more intensely.
It depends on what hell is – here you (Jan Masek quoting Dr. Kinsella) are defining it as infinite punishment.
If you have been made to know, love, and serve God and you choose not to (as Satan chose…as nearly everyone here knows from Milton’s quote passed on to us by Star Trek’s Khan) then hell would be infinity without being able to be who you really are, not too unlike knowing that a math problem is solvable but never able to follow the proofs.
It is your choice to reject God; you are rejecting the possibility of reaching your full potential…all of infinity of being unable to “be yourself” because you can never make the correct choice to know, love, and serve God.
This is a difficult piece of Christian doctrine, so let’s build the Christian perspective on death slowly.
There are 2 final destinations, Heaven and Hell. Heaven is a state of being without pain, but surrounded by God’s loving presence. Nothing impure can enter Heaven. If a person is impure, they must let go of their impurities prior to entry. This process is known as “purging” and gives rise to the term “Purgatory.” Hell is a state a soul chooses specifically because they are more attached to their impurities than they are to God, this state excludes God’s presence.
Now consider the lover and the rapist. Both want a similar thing, but one wants it for the good of the other, but the latter wants it for their own good. God, being good, refuses to force Himself upon someone. Thus, Hell doesn’t exist because God wants to punish people, but because He doesn’t force Himself on us.
This has to be one of Bob’s wackiest posts. What a breathtakingly bizarre world he inhabits!
I love just how blithely he speculates on the Mind of God.
Still trying to understand Americans. This doesn’t help.
I love just how blithely he speculates on the Mind of God.
It’s not speculation; it comes from the Bible.
Still trying to understand Americans. This doesn’t help.
There are non-American evangelical Christians too.
Hi Carl,
I have noticed at the church I visit, the older men do like to pretend they know everything about the Bible, the mind of God and the Nature of God.
They miss the awe and mystery that God is. They never stop to think that God had to create us lacking full knowledge, otherwise we would be God. Study up on Alan Watts if you want to be a man God. He is fascinating albeit incorrect.
The 1 that gets me the most is how often they talk of God having complete knowledge of past, present and future events. This line of thinking never amounts to much because if God knows everything it tends to circumvent free will. Without freewill, the entire story is pointless, from where I sit.
The other men at Bible study never stop to think an all powerful God may have, if only for fun, created a place( Earth) and a species(Humans) in which He does not know the outcome. If I were God, I would most certainly create a unique, disparate place where I did not know the future, although knowing full well, I could pull the plug at any time if need be…
These guys get into all kinds of abstract, unclear issues, while neglecting the basics. The Bible can be really simple if you want it to be. I tend to place most emphasis on the words of Jesus. Jesus is the total evolution of man. Job , Joshua and other great Bible men were precursors to Jesus.
Well anyways, have faith the Savior is real, the need is immediate and then pray the Holy Spirit jumps into your mind and life. Big changes will happen. Before you know it, you maybe loving Jesus with all your heart and loving your neighbor as you would love yourself. Heck, you may just volunteer some of your time and money and I am not talking about tithe to a State controlled agency called church…
Gamble
Send me an email please.
jesusncu@gmail.com
Too descriptive. I want to see the equations.
I envy and admire sincere Christians. I do wonder—it seems like if you are born in Thailand, a good person very likely will become a good-hearted Buddhist. Even as part of honoring parents. Is she a person destined for eternity in hell?
Not if it does not sin.
Sorry,*not if that person does not sin.
H = S = -HV
-H = -S = HV
Double negations make algebra easier for communication.
What kind of a car would Jesus drive?
A Christler.
I call BS. I saw him driving a 1996 red honda civic last week.
“But c’mon, can God really set up a system like this, which defies our intuition? Yes, of course He can: He’s God. If He says this is the arrangement, then He’s right, it is.”
Beyond logic…
Yes there must be something beyond logic, because it is possible for even humans to defy it, and yet not be able to describe it.
That is what people call God.
I am not sure what you mean MF, but the fact that goes beyond intuition is just like economic science. The problem with statists is that statism is popular, wrong, and intuitive.
Intuitiveness does not determine true, much less popularity.
If you think the issue is logic. May you please tell me which basic rule of logic is broken by the Christian view of God?
What I mean is that for whatever reason, which I don’t think anyone knows, or has ever known, or perhaps ever will know, we humans are capable of thoughts that defy logic, that is, thoughts that “transcend” logic, or, if you prefer, thoughts that “violate” logic.
That is something we can think.
If you put this all together, and think of everything humans can think, not in terms of content but in terms of opposites: right versus wrong, logical versus illogical, accurate versus inaccurate, real versus unreal, rational versus irrational, narrow versus wide, and so on and so forth, we have all these opposite classes of thoughts, and there would seem to be some total truth that includes all these opposites.
If you consider say the thoughts that fall into the logical and illogical opposite “bins”, then you have one set of thoughts that when taken together, are difficult to make sense of, because we know logical thoughts because we know illogical thoughts, and we know illogical thoughts because we know logical thoughts. But how do we know both logical and illogical thoughts taken together? A set of chosen rules? OK, then we can just think of thoughts according to rules and thoughts without those rules. The same question presents itself. How do we know thoughts according to rules versus thoughts without rules? Evolution? Creationism? Same question remains! Thoughts in line with evolution versus thoughts not in line with evolution. Thoughts in line with creationism versus thoughts not in line with creationism.
There is this subtle, indescribable “thereness” that seems to underlie all possible thought that is not itself what is thought. Infinity. Boundlessness. Purity. Perfection. Eternal. Everything and Nothing.
I think it is my mortal, corporeal ego. Christians think it is an immortal, divine God.
So no logical rule is broken by Christianity.
ME I think you are dealing with the concept of “proper basic beliefs”
I will try to get links to professional work on it. Plantinga might be the guy to read on this.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
No CHRISTIAN logical rule is broken by Christianity.
Logic is universal like math. You know that one. You are smart guy.
Correct me if I am incorrect. But Mises would advise the use of logic because of its universality.
Let’s be careful here. The point of Mises’ argument on the universality of logic was to expose the logical flaws in the polylogists, such as the Marxists.
Yes, there is one “correct” logic for humanity. But that goes to my point. If there is one correct logic, then that implies the existence of thoughts that are grounded on false logic. So all thoughts include both the one true logic, and all varieties of false logic.
The statement that logic is universal is not a statement that everything we can ever think is logical in accordance with this universal logic. That is what I am getting at. The Marxists thought in accordance with polylogic. They didn’t think in accordance with the logic Mises regardedas universally true.
To make this as clear as possible: the mere fact you can disagree with my thoughts, for whatever reason, means that what you think is right is not universally thought. It does not penetrate all existence to the point of invisibility. That you sense it at all is enough to show you that there are more thoughts than the ones you have, or think are right. The totality of all thoughts include right and wrong, as I said. You are proving my point by identifying your thoughts as correct and mine as incorrect. Both of our thoughts are taking place. Right and wrong if you will. How? What does that mean? The universe contains beings with thoughts that contradict. I don’t get it.
Bob’s post redacted to refer to Zeus and Dionysus.
“One of the best insights I drew from a Theogeny by Hesiod study series I once attended was that you can’t pick and choose from the doctrines of Greek mythology. If you do, the whole thing collapses.
In the present post, I’ll walk through four elements of Greek mythology, at least as it is practiced in my church. Each element, viewed in isolation, understandably looks suspicious or even awful to a cynic. But when you put all four together, it makes possible a synthesis that is beautiful and awe-inspiring.
(1) Greek myth-believers dwell on the omnipotence of Zeus. They sing songs praising His mighty power. (When people literally worship power in other contexts, it is abominable.)
(2) If you have to rely on your own merit, you cannot escape hell. The doctrine of original sin says that you don’t even have a chance. (That sounds horrible.)
(3) Zeus wanted the innocent Dionysus to be punished for others’ crimes. (That sounds awful.)
(4) What Zeus does is good, period. We might not understand why, and we might agree that if a human did comparable things–like ordering the slaughter of infants–it would be monstrous, but if Zeus does something, it is good. (This sounds like moral relativism, which is monstrous.)
But now let’s put them together:
Zeus effectively says, “To spend paradise with Me, you must be perfect as I am.” This is impossible, because you cannot help but sin. But Dionysus led a perfect life, and volunteers to absorb your sins such that you are now blameless. Thus by Dionysus’ sacrifice made out of infinite love, all of us can enjoy eternal bliss.
This bargain sounds very attractive, but is it just? It feels like we’re cheating. No need to worry, of course it’s just: It’s Zeus’ plan, and He only takes actions that are good.
But c’mon, can Zeus really set up a system like this, which defies our intuition? Yes, of course He can: He’s Zeus. If He says this is the arrangement, then He’s right, it is.”
The point being that if someone seriously argued the Zeus/Dionysus idea we would view them as odd, at best, and insane, at worst. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Christian makes claims that are equally odd or insane but without the knowing stigma whose sole basis for “getting a pass” is group delusion. We should view all these god claims similarly as absurd and man-made works of fiction.
“God effectively says, “To spend paradise with Me, you must be perfect as I am.” This is impossible, because you cannot help but sin. But Jesus led a perfect life, and volunteers to absorb your sins such that you are now blameless. Thus by Jesus’ sacrifice made out of infinite love, all of us can enjoy eternal bliss.”
Isn’t Jesus God?
It seems a bit weird that God would have to present himself in human form, walk around on planet Earth, say lots of things, do lots of things, then get horribly killed by people, and then have the whole story of what happened get re-interpreted, obscured, and confused by lots of different people, to absolve all of humanity of their sins.
Happy Eid everybody!
also, I don’t get why God’s Chosen People would reject God (Jesus)?
Did God not foresee the possibility that His chosen people – those he directed and spoke to directly for all of those ages, would then reject Him when he took human form and started preaching things which he had never said before, in all of those ages?
Why bother taking your chosen people out of bondage, leading them across the desert, feeding them with manna from heaven, giving them the Law on stone tablets, killing their enemies, giving them a promised land of their own, only for them to reject you?
Philippe wrote:
Did God not foresee the possibility that His chosen people – those he directed and spoke to directly for all of those ages, would then reject Him when he took human form…
God knew that Jesus would be rejected; there were loads of prophecies about it, and Jesus in the gospels repeatedly predicts that He will be rejected and killed, so that the Old Testament prophesies can be fulfilled. (E.g. here’s just one, but there are loads.)
I’m not trying to be a jerk, Philippe, but have you ever read any of the gospels? If you said, “This plan is dumb,” I could understand, but it seems like you are criticizing Christianity without being familiar with it at all.
Phillipe,
Jesús us the true Israel. He is the seed of Abraham. Please read Galatians chapter 3 so you are familiar.
Bob and you made remember that I have to more familiar with Islam. Thanks guys.
“have you ever read any of the gospels?”
Yes, I have.
I don’t get why He would make all of those profound promises to His chosen people, if He knew they would just reject Him?
basically you have at the very least three basic groups of people who all believe in the same God, and who all have different interpretations of the same, or similar, stories – Jews, Christians, and Muslims.
Why would God do that to us?
I would say men do it through our God given free will.
Besides, it is not like God has any obligation to make things easy or comfortable to us. So he letting the spread of confusing views about him is the result if God gift of free will.
But all non Christian religión preach self salvation. In Christianity God becomes human to suffer like we suffer and save us through that suffering.
The other Mosaic religions God does not suffer like we do. He is as distant as it can be.
Big difference.
“So he letting the spread of confusing views about him is the result of God gift of free will.”
Do you believe that Muslims go to (Christian) heaven?
If they do not sin, yes.
So do you think God is OK with different people following different religions, such as Judaism, Islam, etc?
People can do whatever they want. Libertarianism is true.
If they sin, they will be punish after judgement day, not even in this life they would be punish.
Since I do not know who sins or who does not, nor for the most part is my business, I spread the message for the sinners that repent.
If people do not accept the message I just hope they never sin. They are out if my hands.
“People can do whatever they want. Libertarianism is true.”
Do you think that ‘Libertarianism’ is the political ideology which is closest to Christianity, out of all the others?
Yes
Some friends I already coverted several neo cons.
I quote to them 1Cor 5:9-13 and they freak out.
the whole God Country garbage goes to the dumpster.
We are liberating Christianity from its American Bondage.
I read 1Cor 5:9-13, and I didn’t see what it had to do with the political ideology of Libertarianism. Also, I am not sure why people would freak out upon reading that passage.
“We are liberating Christianity from its American Bondage.”
Of course Christianity is not an American religion in its origin…
I really doubt that Jesus was an Ancap. I really do.
I can see you are not familiar at all with New Testament history.
First century Christians in the Roman Empire were not politically engage to the point about making laws nor influencing them.
So much that the Apostle Paul commands Christians to mind their own business and not to judge people outside the church just people inside the church. God will judge people outside.
Political engagement to get Biblical values into laws is a non sequitor. Laws kind of anti-sodomy laws.
Yes it is disgusting and no one inside the church should do it. But we ought to not judge them if sexually immoral people are not Christians. Much less use government to punishment them.
1 Thessalonians 4:10b-11
But we urge you, brothers, to do this more and more,
11 and to aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you,
12 so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one.
1 Corinthians 5
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people
10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church[ whom you are to judge?
13 God judges[c] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
Did it make sense? Christians get it. Even if they do not like it.
I do not even think Jesus cared about government. The Apostles wrote that we need someone to punish the evil doer.But that is it. Very minimal
I am still minarchist. But I am open to see how Anacap can get someone to punish the evil doer.
The difference seems of limited practical importance, in the mean time. Although it is interesting.
The context of Psalm 118 is clear enough: the rejected cornerstone is God himself, whom the world has rejected but the author holds dear. The entire chapter consists of praise for God, mostly in the context of the LORD as the means of triumphing over a dangerous world and the anxiety it produces. If you approach the chapter with blinders off (as best any of us can), it’s obvious that this is not a prophesy, but praise to God for something he’s done right then and there.
In large part because he was working from the Septuagint rather than the original Hebrew, the author of Matthew made forced prophetic readings like this several times, from Psalm 118 to the Immanuel prophesy to the almah/betulah error. That’s in addition to the fact that the Jesus of Matthew is markedly different in attitude and voice than the Jesus of Mark and especially the Jesus of John, pointing to the likely truth of the hypothesis of a developing Christology from the time of Paul to the gospels through the third century and beyond.
I have immense respect for the Christian tradition for bringing us Aquinas, classical liberalism, and the western tradition of contemplative prayer–the real heart of modern Christianity, so far as I’m concerned–but taking late first-century mythology at face value is an intellectual catastrophe.
Should also say that Matthew is the war gospel. If memory of modern interpretation serves, the author of Matthew was almost certainly writing immediately after the destruction of Jerusalem, which is why Matthew’s Jesus is so much more fiery–it’s no coincidence that it’s Matthew’s Jesus who introduces us to the idea of a punitive afterlife in hell.
So when Matthew forces a particularly odd reading of the Hebrew Bible, we should read that as the equivalent of a rallying cry–he was trying to marshal courage for converts who would have been discouraged by the destruction of Jeshua’s holy city (and their own).
Bob, you typically do a great job with these Sunday posts, and I just wanted to thank you for that.
That said, singing and its “psychological functions” aren’t particularly central to Christian dogma or acceptance. I would be cautious of implying otherwise. Logic alone is sufficient, even if it’s a rather steep (It may be steeper than vertical . . .) path.
I think it might be a good idea to discuss baptism. Baptism has three forms: water, blood, desire.
Baptism by blood is “normal” baptism. Baptism by blood is where a person gives up their life to testify to the truth. Baptism by desire is only available at death, and is where a person is never attached to the Church, but would have chosen to do so if they had understood the truth of the matter.
Through baptism (which is the new circumcision of the Jews) a person becomes joined to the Church Christ founded upon Peter. This symbolic washing washes away the guilt of original sin, preparing one for the life of an adopted Child of God.
Bob,
I know you’re busy, but I hope you’ll take some time to check out some videos from Archbishop Lazar Puhalo on YouTube. The Archbishop has several lectures and spiritual talks online that address your points here. There are also two texts by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware that address these points very well. I will only add that what you take as the “core doctrines” of Christianity are actually only found in Western Christian theology. These teachings are not present in Eastern Christianity (i.e. The Orthodox Church). In ancient Christian theology, there is no doctrine of original sin, no doctrine of blood atonement, and no teaching on eternal punishment (or any punishment for that matter). Further, the liturgical form of worship (The Divine Liturgy) is not meant to reinforce belief – it is meant to bring us closer to God and meant to bring healing to individuals and indeed the entire cosmos.
Travis
please check the link below by orthodoxs on eternal punishment. If there is something wrong with it please let me know.
I always believed eastern Christians did believe in eternal punishment. Origen’s denial of hell was condemned by an ecumenical counsel that orthodox accept.
Please contact me in my email jesusncu@gmail.com to discuss this further.
http://www.gometropolis.org/orthodox-faith/concerning-death/eternal-life-and-eternal-hell/
I guess I am a “thin” Christian. I believe Jesus died once for everyones sins all believers go to heaven and you cannot do action to earn it.
The New Testament describes events under two (major) covenants; The Law of Moses and The New Covenant. Under the old covenant you were required to do actions to cover your sins, but in the new covenant all sins are forgiven AND to get in to heaven all that is required is belief in Jesus.
There is only one sin now and that is the sin of unbelief. Sinfull actions are no longer counted against anyone, but not all are children of God (ie.heaven bound).
Paul calls the Ten Commandments the ministry of death and God calls all our righteousnesses filthy rags. Christians don’t do things because they have to, they should do good things to show the world our faith in Him.
Its like anarco Christanity you aren’t required to pay taxes of good deeds to God once you decide to move into his grace.
Good analogy.
Travis
Lazar Puhal has been defrocked for teaching against Church doctrine. He does not represent Ancient Christian teaching. Did you know that?
The real question is: does anyone care?
Archbishop Lazar was “defrocked” for speaking out against the Toll House heresy/cult. He is very sound on Orthodox doctrine. Regarding eternal punishment, the Church has taught that hell is real and that it (likely) lasts forever. That said, hell is the same “place” as heaven and there is no punishment from God. Orthodoxy does not subscribe to the juridical Western view of damnation. In reality, those who are still unrepentantly addicted to their passions and reject God in this life will be tormented by their conscience, as they cannot escape the pure love of God. God’s love is the river of fire that never goes out. It has nothing to do with punishment.