The Fearlessness of Faith
In my nightly Bible readings, I’ve worked my way up to the Book of Philippians, which is Paul’s letter from prison to the church at Philippi. Here’s an excerpt from the first chapter:
12 And I want you to know, my dear brothers and sisters, that everything that has happened to me here has helped to spread the Good News. 13 For everyone here, including the whole palace guard, knows that I am in chains because of Christ. 14 And because of my imprisonment, most of the believers here have gained confidence and boldly speak God’s message without fear.
…
20 For I fully expect and hope that I will never be ashamed, but that I will continue to be bold for Christ, as I have been in the past. And I trust that my life will bring honor to Christ, whether I live or die. 21 For to me, living means living for Christ, and dying is even better. 22 But if I live, I can do more fruitful work for Christ. So I really don’t know which is better. 23 I’m torn between two desires: I long to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me. 24 But for your sakes, it is better that I continue to live.25 Knowing this, I am convinced that I will remain alive so I can continue to help all of you grow and experience the joy of your faith.
Whether or not you believe in the divinity of Jesus, surely you can appreciate the tremendous power that Paul’s faith gave to him. What the heck can the authorities do to someone, who relishes the opportunity to share the gospel with prison guards, and who views his continued life as a necessary chore before spending eternity with Christ in paradise? You can threaten to torture the guy, but that’s about it; and if in his opposition to you he’s been as harmless as a dove, that could be a public relations disaster.
I imagine some cynics will say in the comments, “Right, just like being promised 72 virgins can get people to do all sorts of ‘brave’ things. Give me a break.” But if you are tempted to say that, I respond: Exactly. Good extension of my point. I don’t know much about Islam, but if there really are young men who truly believe that with all of their hearts, then heck yeah they will be virtually unstoppable. From my extensive studies via Hollywood films and the TV show 24, it is my understanding that the Secret Service says it’s really hard to stop somebody who is willing to die.
In this post I’m not offering an independent argument for the existence of God. Rather, I’m commenting on (a) how courageous some religious people are, though not in a conventional sense, and (b) why religious faith is so hard to stamp out, even when dictatorial means are used such as in the former Soviet Union.
Hey Bob, I’ve got a great new phrase for you, in light of RP’s ass-kicking (on the receiving end) in the South Carolina primary:
Evan-Zionist
Pretty cool, huh? What do you think? Tell me the truth, please.
Yes Ron Pail finally figured out how to get on the news — don’t come in the top 3!
“…why religious faith is so hard to stamp out, even when dictatorial means are used such as in the former Soviet Union.”
Or the current People’s Republic of China.
The New Living Translation is even worse than the NIV.
Take Philippians 1:21. Here is the Greek: “Ἐμοὶ γὰρ τὸ ζῆν Χριστὸς καὶ τὸ ἀποθανεῖν κέρδος.” (“For to me, to live [is] Christ and to die [is] gain.”) The NLT’s rendering is not a translation, but an interpretation—and frankly not a very good one.
“. I don’t know much about Islam, but if there really are young men who truly believe that with all of their hearts, then heck yeah they will be virtually unstoppable.”
And that is a good thing?
I happen to believe in god, but the point of your post is the one thing that scares me about religion and the one reason that I try to keep some distance from my own believes. In my opinion, you made a good argument to reconsider religion today.
f there really are young men who truly believe that with all of their hearts, then heck yeah they will be virtually unstoppable.
Yes. And from this and the fact that only a negiigible percentage of young men have in fact given their lives in this particular cause, I think we can infer that very few of these professed “believers” actually believe what they say they believe. Which, as you know, is something I strongly suspect is true of all religions.
There is an important distinction to be made between intellectual conviction and psychological impulses. Many people have phobias they know to be irrational. That the phobias continue to influence their conduct does not demonstrate that they do not really believe the phobias are irrational.
Hmmmm. Didn’t Paul also write…….
Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.
Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
Romans 13:5-7
Still waiting to read how an anarcho-capitalist can agree with what is written above. Its going to take some serious mental gymnastics to overcome those blatantly statist bible passages, Dr Murphy.
But I respect you none the less.
Anarcho-capitalist defense of Romans 13 – Does Bob do anything illegal? Do you see him rioting in the streets? Isn’t he far more effective in spreading his message through non-violent and legal means?
The ruler(s) of a country are a symptom of the belief systems of the citizenry. All government, no matter how corrupt, has the tacit approval of at least a significant minority. Cutting off the head does nothing to kill the beast, and it typically leads to more chaos, a la Libya and Egypt. Violently overthrowing a gov’t doesn’t change the statist attitudes of the citizenry. For a country to become a free and peaceful society, it has to change organically, one person at a time. You have to have a sweeping ideological shift, and that it exactly what I perceive Bob is working towards.
That’s a great response….but not to those bible passages.
I don’t know how to make this more clear.
Bob believes that taxes are immoral…that taxation is theft…that we are not morally obliged to pay taxes. While Paul thinks that it is the “duty” of good Christians to pay their taxes because government bureaucrats are God’s servants.
Paul also says, “Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.” So Paul is saying that all of us must submit to the government in order to have a good conscience. While Bob support civil disobedience. He supports good people disobeying bad laws.
If you don’t see a disconnect there, it is of no use to discuss this matter any further.
Bob, please, please help me understand how you accept Paul’s message in Romans. Or let me know that you don’t accept it.
Tom,
Some thought starters for you, hopefully this will be helpful.
http://libertarianchristians.com/2011/12/17/stanley-hauerwas-on-romans-13
Thanks. I will read it.
Update…I watched the video and I read Romans 12.
First off, I am not a Christian and don’t harbor any negative views toward those who are.
But it seems to me that Paul was very clear. Paul is a statist….and thats ok. I’m not saying he was a bad person.
But rather than saying they disagree with Paul, many people will instead choose to make up new interpretations about those passages.
It really reminds me of people who read the second amendment and say that it only refers to state governments having the ability to keep and bear arms, not the people.
Disagree with something all you want, but don’t make up new meanings so that it doesn’t offend your worldview.
Tom,
Submitting to persecution is not an endorsement of that persecution. Romans 12 tells them to willfully endure suffering and persecution. This was written near the time that Nero used the Christians as a scapegoat for the great fire of Rome. He is beseaching them to model themselves after Christ whose submission to death infinitely amplified his life. Paul’s statement is not so radical because he tells you to pay taxes, he’s telling you to let the state persecute you. An outflow of this model is the Christian conversion of the Roman empire.
Tom wrote:
Bob, please, please help me understand how you accept Paul’s message in Romans.
OK I will do that, perhaps on Sunday. But first, tell me: Do you think Paul accepts his message in Romans? Remember, Paul wrote a lot of his letters from prison.
That would be great, Bob.
I’m not sure I know what your question means. Are you implying that he wrote those passages to please his captors and didn’t really believe what he was writing?
I think Bob means that Paul was in prison for disobeying the authorities.
Ahhh…I am super stupid so you have to spoon feed questions to me. (seriously)
I don’t know. Maybe Paul thought his disobeying the state was sinful and he regretted it? Maybe not? It does seem contradictory, but that’s nothing new.
The point is….why would Paul write Romans 13, if he didn’t believe the state was appointed God and must be obeyed? If you didn’t believe taxes were moral, would you have written Romans 13? Seriously, could you not have chosen better words to convey this message?
On the one hand, we are supposed to think that Paul was a great thinker who was chosen by God to deliver us the good news, but on the other hand we are supposed to believe that Paul couldn’t write his message with clarity.
Admittedly, I don’t know as much about the Bible as you guys do, but I can read.
Acts 5:29 “We ought to obey God rather than men”.
So which is it? Should we obey rulers of this world(men) or God.
The answer is for what purpose God appointed those rulers and is revealed in Romans 12:3 “For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good”.
So rulers are appointed to do what is good in the sight of the Lord. Because when they obey God so should we obey them for they were appointed by God. Therefor by obeying those rulers who obey God, we obey God.
“From my extensive studies via Hollywood films and the TV show 24, it is my understanding that the Secret Service says it’s really hard to stop somebody who is willing to die.”
I would argue that the most absolutely fundamental principle of keeping people under control is giving them something to lose. You don’t want to be fighting a rat in a corner, because the rat only needs to prove that this whole business ain’t worth your while.
Bob, thanks for your mini-lesson, I enjoy them every time. I wouldn’t worry too much about the cynics, they’ll always have something negative to interject. Beware of mistaking “intensity equivalence” with “moral equivalence”. Sure, both Paul and the 72-virgins crowd are intensely passionate, but even a child can distinguish between “harmless as a dove” and “jihad”.
FYI – Some scholars are critical of the New Living Translation (which it seems is what you are using. Forgive me if I am wrong) for being a little watered down. For instance, Philippians 1:22 (NLT) ends “so I really don’t know which is better.” Compare with New King James version: “yet what I shall choose I cannot tell.” Paul is not unsure of what he knows, but, like many of us, battles over what he should do. That’s a significant difference in meaning. I must admit though that recent updates of NLT have improved on the original.
Carry on with your studies and report back frequently!
Richards
Um, I think the intended takeaway from the comparison to Islam and 72 virgins is, “Okay, maybe the willingness-to-die thing is actually a double-edged sword: sure, you’re more effective in doing good, but also in doing evil.”
So your response to the comparison to suicide bombers is a little un-reassuring…
Wow, Bob. This particular “Sunday post” resinates with me, even though I am an agnostic atheist. As you know I have had some feelings recently of whether I should continue to do what I feel to be right and just, or to just throw in the towel and give up. This goes far beyond religion per say, it really has more to do with carrying on the burden of knowledge and hope.
Funny how the world works, isn’t it?
resonates, per se
Ok, my fine, friendly pedant. You know what I meant.
😉
I am usually pretty good with regard to policing my spelling, but I was in a hurry this morning. Give me a little slack.
It’s okay, I just felt nitpiicky today 😉
Today? LOL
nitpicky 🙂
Matthew 10:28 (ESV):
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell