Slavery and Reparations
My latest Mises Canada post. I make the standard point (i.e. that slavery and other racist institutions hurt white people too, on average), then make a point I haven’t seen others make regarding the latest call for reparations:
A recent essay by Ta-Nehisi Coates makes the case for reparations to be paid to black Americans. The subtitle of the essay provides a good summary of its main points: “Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole.”
In this blog post I will make two points: (1) Racist institutions and policies historically hurt black people, obviously. But they also hurt the average white person. This undercuts the whole case for transferring money from the alleged inheritors of ill-gotten gains, since in fact they did not gain. (2) If we are going to discuss the “compounding moral debts” from injustices inflicted on past generations, I hope progressive intellectuals use the same very low discount rates in this context, as they insist be used when it comes to climate change policies.
Bob, I think the relevant comparison is not whether white non-slave owners would have been better off if the black people who had been brought here were free rather than slaves. Rather, the relevant comparison is whether the white non-slave owners would have been better off relative to a situation where the slave trade hadn’t happened (at least in America) and blacks never came to America. And to the extent that they were better off, for instance in terms of lower food prices, the argument is that a lot of those gains that should have accrued to the black people who made those gains possible, hence the call for reparations.
“the relevant comparison is whether the white non-slave owners would have been better off relative to a situation where the slave trade hadn’t happened (at least in America) ”
They almost certainly would have been.
Sorry, my sentence was awkwardly worded, so just to clarify, are you saying that non-slave owning whites were better in the actual situation, or in the alternate situation where blacks hadn’t come to America?
I’m saying that non-slave owning whites certainly would have been better off had the slave trade not happened. I thought the economic analysis of this issue was becoming increasingly in agreement on this point.
Slavery was not a story of “whites get rich at the expense of blacks,” it was “plantation owners get rich at the expense of everyone else.”
“I’m saying that non-slave owning whites certainly would have been better off had the slave trade not happened. I thought the economic analysis of this issue was becoming increasingly in agreement on this point.” Well, I doubt most economists agree that non-slave holding whites were hurt on net, but regardless, what’s your argument that they were hurt on net? Let me put it this way: if blacks weren’t humans but rather machines, and the slave owners had simply imported machines to automate farm labor, what’s the argument that the rest of society would be hurt on net?
I thought that slaves not being machines (or even cattle) was the very problem.
Keshav wrote:
if blacks weren’t humans but rather machines, and the slave owners had simply imported machines to automate farm labor, what’s the argument that the rest of society would be hurt on net?
Keshav, c’mon, I’m not asking you to agree with me, but it’s like you’re not even trying to comprehend the argument.
Read this one again, and you’ll see why your machine analogy doesn’t work at all.
Bob, the argument in that post (from what I remember of it) was simply that people are more productive as free workers than as slaves, and thus in a free market all the slaves would eventually be freed. How does any part of that argument address my question of whether white non-slave owners were better off in the actual situation that occurred, or in the alternate situation where blacks had never come to America at all (at least in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries)? Even if blacks had been more productive workers in Africa if they hadn’t left and become slaves in America, what reason do we have to believe that a significant number of them would have had an appreciable effect on the lives of Americans an ocean away, that would more than make up for the economic benefits that non-slave-owning whites received from lower food prices and the like?
Keshav, suppose that tomorrow 20 million workers in the US suddenly disappeared. Would you say that would make the remaining people richer or poorer, on average?
They would obviously be poorer. And that’s my point: even the non-slave owning whites would have been poorer had blacks not come to America. And to the extent that non-slave owning whites were better off by virtue of the presence of blacks, the argument of reparations-proponents is that a lot of those gains the should have rightly accrued to the black people who made those gains possible, but blacks were deprived of that, hence the call for reparations.
Keshav:
“even the non-slave owning whites would have been poorer had blacks not come to America.”
That claim depends on a standard of comparison.
If the standard is the wealth capable of being produced in free trade, then no, it is not true that non-slave owning whites would have been worse off had African blacks not been kidnapped and taken to the US. They would have been better off had the blacks not been kidnapped, and free to produce goods to then trade.
“They would have been better off had the blacks not been kidnapped, and free to produce goods to then trade.” Not necessarily. Africa was an ocean away, and it wasn’t producing much exports to the rest of the world. If the blacks had stayed they might well have been productive members of the West African economy, but it’s not likely that they would have had much impact on Americans.
Keshav:
“Not necessarily. Africa was an ocean away, and it wasn’t producing much exports to the rest of the world. If the blacks had stayed they might well have been productive members of the West African economy, but it’s not likely that they would have had much impact on Americans.”
The law of comparative advantage is a worldwide law, Keshav. They COULD have focused on internal free trade, then grow, then trade with the west.
That counter-factual is valid. It doesn’t matter if they chose to remain in squalor in history. For then we can just say that they would otherwise have been better off with internally free trade, the same way the main argument shows that masters and slaves could have been better off through trade.
You keep saying “not necessarily”, as if we are making historical claims that free trade WOULD have happened, which is weird to say, because either history is one of free trade, or it isn’t, and if it isn’t, then the argument of everyone being better off remains a counter-factual that isn’t refuted by “not necessarily” arguments, as if anyone is making a claim about what “necessarily” happened.
It is absurd to argue that because Africa was not well developed at the time, that they and others in the world could not have benefited from free trade. Free trade internal to Africa would have enabled them to prosper, and make it cost effective to then trade with those in the US. They obviously could not do that when they were kidnapped and made slaves in the US!
The counter-factual remains valid. Free trade in Africa and internationally would have made everyone better off than they were, materially speaking.
Imagine three scenarios. 1) No mass migration of Africans to America
2) Slavery as it happened
3) Mass voluntary migration of Africans to the USA for work.
We can probably agree that it is likely that all Americans would be better off if the black workers had been tempted over from Africa by offers of work for fair wages. That is, scenario 3 offers the best outcome for everybody.
However, are white Americans better off under 1) or 2)? i.e. no migration or slavery? This is quite a separate argument.
In the absence of slavery, it is quite likely that there would not have been mass migration on a voluntary basis from Africa, in part because the information held by the Africans was incomplete. We do not know how much would have needed to been paid to tempt the Africans over to work.
“Well, I doubt most economists agree that non-slave holding whites were hurt on net”
Well, well, “most economists” have heard of, understand, and accept the “law of comparative advantage.”
Applied to slavery, a master can be materially better off if the slaves are freed, able to specialize in production, and then trade with the (former) master.
“Applied to slavery, a master can be materially better off if the slaves are freed, able to specialize in production, and then trade with the (former) master.” Well, even if you’re right, that’s about what would happen holding all other things equal. But the question I was discussing with Matt M is one where the alternative is not those blacks being free workers in America, but rather those blacks never having come to America at all.
So the opportunities for trade would be greatly diminished, the master and his would-be slave separated by thousands of miles.
“Well, even if you’re right, that’s about what would happen holding all other things equal.”
That’s all economic arguments can ever be.
“But the question I was discussing with Matt M is one where the alternative is not those blacks being free workers in America, but rather those blacks never having come to America at all.”
And do what instead? You’re still bound up with counter-factuals here.
“So the opportunities for trade would be greatly diminished, the master and his would-be slave separated by thousands of miles.”
Greatly diminished…*relative to what standard*?
Some pure and perfect utopia?
Did decades of housing discrimination and exploitation (you know, the subject of Coates’s piece) also harm white people?
Do you think the harm slavery and other racist institutions did to black and white people was equal or remotely comparable? If not, then why does that cancel out the case for reparations?
Did decades of housing discrimination and exploitation (you know, the subject of Coates’s piece) also harm white people?
That’s not as obvious, because some of what Coates considers “racial discrimination” in housing is actually just “application of sound lending standards that has a disproportionate racial impact.”
That is a really, really weak dodge, as is “slavery and other racist institutions.”
You can’t knock down his case for reparations when you ignore the actual case he made for reparations.
Here’s how they subtitled his essay:
Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy.
You’re saying his case primarily rested on racist housing policy?
Are you saying his case primarily rested on slavery? You didn’t see anything in the article about events after 1865?
I was willing to read you charitably at first, but now I can’t see any other conclusion than that you stopped reading the piece after the subtitle. You have no idea what his argument was about and think you have demolished a case that does not resemble the case that was actually made.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/05/22/314881767/how-to-tell-if-someones-actually-read-ta-nehisi-coates-essay
Coates points out that a Federal agency was the first to begin redlining.
It’s good that Africans didn’t come over to America and enslave the white colonists, take them back to Africa and force them to do backbreaking labor for the rest of their lives… because if they did then Africa would have been much worse off economically.
Is that not a point to be made (or argued, at least)?
Philippe wrote:
It’s good that Africans didn’t come over to America and enslave the white colonists, take them back to Africa and force them to do backbreaking labor for the rest of their lives… because if they did then Africa would have been much worse off economically.
It’s distasteful that our conversation has come to this, Philippe, but you’re forcing my hand. He’s white, right? I don’t know his ethnicity but he looks white. So do you really think Africans would have been richer in material terms if he had been forced his whole life to pick crops under the threat of the lash?
Bob, Phillipe is really saying that because he believes that slavery really does make the masters better off in the long run. He has a general view of human life as an inherent conflict. A zero sum game. And he certainly has never read Ricardo’s law of association. He believes he’s giving you a zinger, but he’s really just displaying his own ignorance.
Bob,
You’re mixing up two different things.
If I steal $1 million from you, you become poorer and I become wealthier at your expense.
Similarly, if one country invades another country and steals all their stuff, the first country becomes wealthier at the expense of the second country, the second country becomes poorer.
Your argument is that if the first country had not invaded the second country, and they had instead traded peacefully with each other, the first country would have become even wealthier than it became by stealing all of the second country’s stuff. That may well be so. It is a hypothetical possibility.
However, this does not change the fact that the first country became wealthier from stealing the second country’s stuff, and the second country became poorer.
Similarly, your argument does not change the fact that if I steal $1 million from you, you become poorer and I become wealthier at your expense.
It’s possible that I may have become even wealthier if instead of stealing from you I worked for a living. That does not change the fact that I became wealthier by stealing from you and making you poorer.
So you’re confusing two different things:
1. Blacks became poorer because of slavery, but whites also became poorer, just to a lesser degree (this is your claim).
2. Blacks became poorer because of slavery, and whites became wealthier because of slavery, but not as wealthy as they hypothetically might have become if slavery never existed.
Philippe:
You’re conflating two different things and attributing the same conflation to Murphy.
He isn’t denying that in the short run, the invaders gain and the invaded lose. His argument is the counter-factual that you are saying is a “hypothetical.”
The counter-factual of both parties being better off through trade is NOT falsified or refuted or challenged by the factual of one party gaining at the expense of the other.
MF,
If I steal $1 million from you, I become wealthier and you become poorer.
If I manage to get away with it and never have to pay for my crime, then I might be able to invest that $1 million and turn it into $10 million, or more.
Overall, it’s possible that the wealth I gain from stealing from you far exceeds what I could have ever obtained through honest means. Crime pays in that case, if I never have to pay for my crime.
You could argue that if there was no crime at all, then society as a whole would be richer. However that doesn’t mean that I would necessarily be richer.
If I never stole from you, I might never manage to accumulate $1 million in my entire life. Conversely, with a stolen $1 million in my pocket, I might be able to turn myself into a multi-millionaire.
Philippe:
There is still a counter-factual where both of us would be better off through trade in the long run.
Whether or not you strive to have an adequate imagination and the desire to think outside the box, is not in itself sufficient to conclude that you would necessarily be better off by stealing.
For just like you put effort into thinking how you can enrich yourself via theft, I put effort into thinking how to enrich myself through trade.
From your perspective, if you are going to imagine stealing $1 million and investing it to turn it into $10 million, then I could throw it back at you and say I might very well have been able to earn a higher return on that investment than you, and then you and I trade the surplus, which makes you wealthier than $1 million. What if we pooled our talents and engaged in a joint venture for example? Or what if I hire you instead, and you develop business skills you would not have otherwise have developed, whereby you then earn a higher rate of return on a smaller initial investment, and end up being wealthier that way?
I think you are not thinking enough. If theft were better, then if everyone tried it, everyone would be poorer. If you say no no no, only YOU steal while everyone produces, then again, as shown above, there are counter-factuals where you would still be better off trading. You just have to have a more active imagination.
“There is still a counter-factual where both of us would be better off through trade in the long run”
That’s possible, but there’s also no reason why I should necessarily become better off by working honestly, than by stealing $1 million from you.
This is often why people become criminals or gangsters – because the rewards are so much higher than they expect to achieve through honest work.
Crime can pay, for the individual, if you never have to pay for your crime – If you never have to repay your ill-gotten gains, or go to prison, for example.
That’s not to say that crime is good, it’s just a statement of fact.
“if you are going to imagine stealing $1 million and investing it to turn it into $10 million, then I could throw it back at you and say I might very well have been able to earn a higher return on that investment than you”
It’s also possible to imagine that I might turn out to be better at investing than you, and make more out of that $1 million I stole from you than you ever could. Say you inherited the money, for example, whereas I started out with nothing.
“If you say no no no, only YOU steal while everyone produces”
That’s exactly what slavery is. The slave owner steals from the slave, whilst the slave produces. And throughout history, stealing from slaves has been very profitable venture, because slaveowners (thieves) have not had to pay for their crimes.
If you want to be accurate about your history, one African tribe raided another African tribe, sold the captives to Arabs who shipped them through various slave markets, many ending up with white owners. Of course that doesn’t fit the guilt narrative, because we can’t conveniently point to a modern generation of white people (who never owned a slave) and blame them for it.
“The Atlantic slave trade or transatlantic slave trade took place across the Atlantic Ocean from the 16th through to the 19th centuries. The vast majority of those enslaved that were transported to the New World, many on the triangular trade route and its Middle Passage, were West Africans from the central and western parts of the continent sold by West Africans to Western European slave traders, or by direct European capture to the Americas…
“The Portuguese were the first to engage in the New World slave trade in the 16th century, and others soon followed. Ship owners considered the slaves as cargo to be transported to the Americas as quickly and cheaply as possible,[2] there to be sold to labour in coffee, tobacco, cocoa, sugar and cotton plantations, gold and silver mines, rice fields, construction industry, cutting timber for ships, in skilled labour, and as domestic servants. The first Africans imported to the English colonies were classified as “indentured servants,” like workers coming from England, and also, “apprentices for life”. By the middle of the 17th century, slavery had hardened as a racial caste; they and their offspring were legally the property of their owners, and children born to slave mothers were slaves. As property, the people were considered merchandise or units of labour, and were sold at markets with other goods and services.
The Atlantic slave traders, ordered by trade volume, were: the Portuguese, the British, the French, the Spanish, the Dutch Empire, and the United States. They had established outposts on the African coast where they purchased slaves from local African tribal leaders.[3] Current estimates are that about 12 million Africans were shipped across the Atlantic,[4] although the number purchased by the traders is considerably higher.[5][6][7]…
“… Europeans usually bought enslaved people who were captured in endemic warfare between African states.[22] Some Africans had made a business out of capturing Africans from neighboring ethnic groups or war captives and selling them.[23] A scathing reminder of this practice is documented in the Slave Trade Debates of England in the early 19th century: “All the old writers… concur in stating not only that wars are entered into for the sole purpose of making slaves, but that they are fomented by Europeans, with a view to that object.”[24] People living around the Niger River were transported from these markets to the coast and sold at European trading ports in exchange for muskets and manufactured goods such as cloth or alcohol.[25] However, the European demand for slaves provided a large new market for the already existing trade.[26]…
“It is estimated that more than half of the entire slave trade took place during the 18th century, with the British, Portuguese and French being the main carriers of nine out of ten slaves abducted from Africa.[44] By the 1690s, the English were shipping the most slaves from West Africa.[45] They maintained this position during the 18th century, becoming the biggest shippers of slaves across the Atlantic.[46]…
“Triangular trade: The first side of the triangle was the export of goods from Europe to Africa. A number of African kings and merchants took part in the trading of enslaved people from 1440 to about 1833. For each captive, the African rulers would receive a variety of goods from Europe. These included guns, ammunition and other factory made goods. The second leg of the triangle exported enslaved Africans across the Atlantic Ocean to the Americas and the Caribbean Islands. The third and final part of the triangle was the return of goods to Europe from the Americas. The goods were the products of slave-labour plantations and included cotton, sugar, tobacco, molasses and rum…
“The Atlantic Slave Trade was the result of, among other things, labour shortage, itself in turn created by the desire of European colonists to exploit New World land and resources for capital profits. Native peoples were at first utilized as slave labour by Europeans, until a large number died from overwork and Old World diseases.[49] Alternative sources of labour, such as indentured servitude, failed to provide a sufficient workforce. Many crops could not be sold for profit, or even grown, in Europe. Exporting crops and goods from the New World to Europe often proved to be more profitable than producing them on the European mainland. A vast amount of labour was needed to create and sustain plantations that required intensive labour to grow, harvest, and process prized tropical crops. Western Africa (part of which became known as “the Slave Coast”), and later Central Africa, became the source for enslaved people to meet the demand for labour.
The basic reason for the constant shortage of labour was that, with large amounts of cheap land available and lots of landowners searching for workers, free European immigrants were able to become landowners themselves after a relatively short time, thus increasing the need for workers.[50]
Thomas Jefferson attributed the use of slave labour in part to the climate, and the consequent idle leisure afforded by slave labour: “For in a warm climate, no man will labour for himself who can make another labour for him. This is so true, that of the proprietors of slaves a very small proportion indeed are ever seen to labour.”[51]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade
You can read it as easily in the original as if I paste an entire article into someone’s blog, because that would be just a dopey thing to do.
I know that Arabs engaged in slavery and slave trading.
In your previous comment you stated that Afican slaves ‘ended up’ with white owners after having been first acquired and sold by Arabic slave traders. The reality is that the vast transatlantic slave trade, which brought all the African slaves to America, was created and operated by Europeans and Americans of European descent. Not Arabs. Europeans began by capturing African slaves directly, then bought slaves from African tribes/states who conquered other tribes/states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa
Off you go, collect some reparations, going back several thousand years. Any time you are ready.
RIght Tel. If the actual victim and the actual wrongdoer (or at least the person that ended up with the stolen property for example) can’t be identified clearly as well as the actual damage done, then such broad sweeping reparations are nothing else but a form of collective punishment.
I am not sure people really want to be in company with those other guys in history who promoted such things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment
“many ending up with white owners” That is not really the case is it? They were captured because there were white buyers at the end of the chain. They didn’t just “end up” there.
What is the point here? If Arabs get a guilty conscience about their previous involvement in slavery, then they may wish to make reparations. Just because others were involved does not mean that White people were not also involved. How many of those slaves captured by Africans and Arabs would have been captured if there were not buyers from America?
I am not arguing for reparations here, but the fact that others were involved in the aquisition of slaves is not a good argument for not making them.
Tel,
I agree that the issue of reparations for large-scale historical crimes can be complex and problematic. I also agree that there have been many great crimes committed throughout history which have never been rectified. However the existence of one crime does not excuse another, nor does it invalidate the claims of those who have suffered injustice.
If black Americans had received ‘adequate’ reparations once slavery was abolished, and had been treated as equal citizens from then on, then it probably wouldn’t be an issue today. However that’s not what happened.
Unless “adequate” is akin to magic, I’m heading the opposite way here. Regardless of what might had been done, we’d probably still see calls today saying it simply wasn’t enough.
That’s possible, but we can’t really know as you are talking about an alternate reality.
Germany paid substantial reparations to Israel shortly after WWII, even though some Germans opposed the idea as they did not consider themselves to be personally responsible, and the wealth transfer provided a large boost to fledgling Israeli economy.
Of course it couldn’t undo what had been done, but it was better than nothing.
A significant point is that the oppression of black Americans didn’t end with slavery – it continued in different forms for a long time, and possibly continues to this day in certain ways. So the issue is more complicated than just the direct legacy of slavery itself.
I’ve read Ta-Nehisi Coates’ article, and he doesn’t argue that “whites must pay blacks a bunch of money” or something like that. Instead he argues in favor of the bill H.R. 40, which you can read more about here:
http://conyers.house.gov/index.cfm/reparations
Whether you agree with him or not, his argument is not unreasonable.
Right, however, your “significant” point makes the German reparations (to Holocaust survivors and Israel) look inapt as a comparison.
I think a better precedent would have to be multi-faceted and over several generations. The closest I can think of is reparations to Native American tribes. (And, of course, that hasn’t ended demands for more).
As for H.R. 40, it’s clearly a stepping stone towards some form reparations, just see item 4. Even ignoring item 4 though, the impact studies and commissions will cost money.
So, yes, I’d say it’s unreasonable (I might be a bit strict on how taxpayer money should be spent though.)
“As for H.R. 40, it’s clearly a stepping stone towards some form reparations”
The bill proposes setting up a commission which would make recommendations to Congress on ‘appropriate remedies’ to the identified problems.
Whatever these recommendations might be, they would have to be voted on by Congress.
“the impact studies and commissions will cost money”
Of course. Why does that make them unreasonable?
“Whatever these recommendations might be, they would have to be voted on by Congress.”
Uh, yeah, hence my calling it a stepping stone. (Otherwise their isn’t any point in the bill other than as a signaling device)
“Of course. Why does that make them unreasonable?”
Either way they divert taxpayer (and more importantly, *my*) money towards waste.
And I’m not even against government wasting money on frivolous things *if* it keeps them distracted from more detrimental things but that’s a pretty big “if”.
Can you give me a good reason why I would/should want this?
“Either way they divert taxpayer (and more importantly, *my*) money towards waste.”
Why do you think it is wasteful?
Some people think this is a very important issue which needs to be addressed. Whether public funds should be spent on addressing it depends on the Congress, which has power over the ‘public purse’.
(Note that public funds are greater than tax revenue, so it is somewhat misleading to describe all public expenditure as an expenditure of taxpayer money).
“Can you give me a good reason why I would/should want this?”
This isn’t my personal crusade – you should read Coates’ article for a good account of why people still think this issue is important enough to devote public funds to it.
“Why do you think it is wasteful?”
I’ve already said, as it does not benefit me.
“Some people think this is a very important issue which needs to be addressed.”
This issue has been addressed, and addressed and addressed. The reason it keeps coming up is simply because the results – a reparations program is unworkable – aren’t to a particular groups liking.
This is much like the Gun Control debate, when votes don’t go the particular group’s way – “this country needs a ‘dialogue’.”
“Whether public funds should be spent on addressing it depends on the Congress, which has power over the ‘public purse’.
(Note that public funds are greater than tax revenue, so it is somewhat misleading to describe all public expenditure as an expenditure of taxpayer money).”
It really doesn’t matter though, as all of that money could go elsewhere. Since Coates (nor you) hasn’t given me a single reason why *I* should favor it, (no, I’m not interested in a “spiritual awakening) I can’t see why it’s reasonable.
“This isn’t my personal crusade – you should read Coates’ article for a good account of why people still think this issue is important enough to devote public funds to it.”
Did you even read the article? Coates is purposefully vague. He makes his case by ignoring many of the practical objections to *actual proposed reparations programs* and just saying we need to take a first step (with the bill) if you don’t have anything practical at hand still going forward seems…
“I’ve already said, as it does not benefit me.”
That doesn’t mean it is wasteful.
“Did you even read the article?”
Yes.
“Coates is purposefully vague. He makes his case by ignoring many of the practical objections to *actual proposed reparations programs*”
It’s true there are many practical and other sorts of objections. Coates gets around this problem by saying we should have a commission look at it. His main aim seems to be to make the topic part of the mainstream political debate.
If you disagree with the whole thing, that’s fine. I personally don’t know whether some form of reparations are in order or not. However I’m not opposed to the idea of taking the question seriously at the government level. Ignoring it won’t achieve much.
“That doesn’t mean it is wasteful.”
On the contrary, that’s exactly what it means. As always, I am the ultimate purpose here.
“It’s true there are many practical and other sorts of objections. Coates gets around this problem by saying we should have a commission look at it.”
Yes, that’s called “ignoring the problem”.
“His main aim seems to be to make the topic part of the mainstream political debate.”
Indeed. That’s the problem, at least the beginning of it.
“Ignoring it won’t achieve much.”
Elevating the topic further, into a political fixture is much, much worse than ignoring it – I wish it could be ignored, but it won’t – thankfully, folks like Coates are still doing it on someone else’s time. And if people are serious about it they’ll develop and support solutions to it.
“On the contrary, that’s exactly what it means. As always, I am the ultimate purpose here”.
That’s your opinion. The fact that it is your opinion does not necessarily mean that it is true, or can not be disputed.
“Yes, that’s called “ignoring the problem”.”
I disagree that debating things on the ‘national stage’ (i.e. the mass media) or in the highest levels of government, equals “ignoring the problem”.
“Elevating the topic further, into a political fixture is much, much worse than ignoring it”
I’m not sure why you believe that to be the case. The US came into being because people elevated their concerns to the political or governmental level, and then found certain solutions to the problems that they had identified.
“That’s your opinion. The fact that it is your opinion does not necessarily mean that it is true, or can not be disputed.”
It can be disputed, it hasn’t though, with argument at least.. I could have taken the “that’s your opinion” route with your defense of what it means to be wasteful too, but that’s slightly too easy a dodge for me.
“I disagree that debating things on the ‘national stage’ (i.e. the mass media) or in the highest levels of government, equals “ignoring the problem”.”
You seemed to have skipped a point here. Coates is ignoring the problem(s) and wants to elevate it anyways, hoping they’ll get worked out down the line.
Should all things be elevated to such a level? If not, then why this? Especially considering that there are so many holes in the current arguments for reparations?
(Wasteful and unreasonable comes to mind once again)
“I’m not sure why you believe that to be the case. The US came into being because people elevated their concerns to the political or governmental level, and then found certain solutions to the problems that they had identified.”
So what? Ignoring the incredible broadness of this assertion, do you honestly consider that an apt comparison to the subject at hand?
“It can be disputed, it hasn’t though, with argument at least..”
Really? The belief that “I am the ultimate purpose” has never been disputed?
“I could have taken the “that’s your opinion” route with your defense of what it means to be wasteful too, but that’s slightly too easy a dodge for me.”
True, but then we have to find a way to reconcile our different opinions about things.
“Coates is ignoring the problem(s)”
He is ignoring some potential problems, but he is saying: “let’s have a proper public debate about this and try to come up with the best solutions”.
“Should all things be elevated to such a level? If not, then why this?”
The issue of ‘reparations’ will only be elevated to the national, governmental level if enough people really want it to be, and work hard for that to happen… if not then it won’t be.
“do you honestly consider that an apt comparison to the subject at hand?”
It’s not the same thing, but there are some similarities. People identify injustices, and try to rectify them through the law. If the the law doesn’t recognize the injustice, they try to change the law.
“Really? The belief that “I am the ultimate purpose” has never been disputed?”
Not here.
“True, but then we have to find a way to reconcile our different opinions about things.”
So, you’re welcome.
“He is ignoring some potential problems, but he is saying: “let’s have a proper public debate about this and try to come up with the best solutions”.”
No, he isn’t. He’s saying the “proper debate keeps coming up flat, so let’s move it to Congress.” Again, the issue (or reparations) has been addressed time and again, the debate has been had repeatedly. Saying… “well Congress should still look into” it at this point is exactly why it’s unreasonable and wasteful.
“The issue of ‘reparations’ will only be elevated to the national, governmental level if enough people really want it to be, and work hard for that to happen… if not then it won’t be.”
And they obviously don’t. At least all the proposed solutions.
“People identify injustices, and try to rectify them through the law.”
Coates, of course, does not have a way to rectify it, nor does the Bill he suggests as a start. Figure that out, then take it to Congress.
“Why do you think it is wasteful?”
I’ve already said, as it does not benefit me.
Lets dispute it here with reason.
Lets say wasteful is inefficient in economic terms.
Free market economics says (broadly) that if everyone pursues their interests there will be the most efficient outcome. If the result is different there is a good case that it is wasteful.
In a free market there will be winners and losers. A new cheap manufacturing method will cause existing workers and owners to lose out as they cannot compete. So we see clearly that the efficient outcome results in some losers. The standard “I am the ultimate purpose” is clearly in contradiction to the pursuit of economic efficiency, and cannot be used as a criterion for deciding wastefulness.
“The standard “I am the ultimate purpose” is clearly in contradiction to the pursuit of economic efficiency, and cannot be used as a criterion for deciding wastefulness.”
Thanks Harold.
While I don’t have an issue with an abstract economic analysis that doesn’t involve myself it seems to be besides my mostly shallow, egoistic point.
Efficiency has no meaning outside of given ends. And when you consider that individuals have competing and conflicting ends sought, one man’s efficiency is another’s inefficiency. I’m not saying this is a bad thing either… unless I’m the loser!
I recall a more eloquent fellow wrote about it in Time, Uncertainty and Disequilibrium.
In a free market there will be winners and losers. A new cheap manufacturing method will cause existing workers and owners to lose out as they cannot compete. So we see clearly that the efficient outcome results in some losers.
True. But if “winning” entails convincing consumers to voluntarily trade with you, then when consumers no longer want your product you’re *supposed* to lose.
The alternative is the belief that people ought to be forced to buy our products based on only our own valuations of them, without considering that there are two parties to every transaction.
The consumer creates winners and losers, not the greedy capitalist.
If anyone’s inclined, the following video is extremely helpful on this issue:
The Birth of the Austrian School | Joseph T. Salerno
And since you’re *supposed* to lose when you don’t arrange your production processes to conform to consumer preferences, becoming an economic loser because of that *is* the efficient outcome.
None of us are entitled to the wealth of others. We either produce what other people actually want, or we should expect to lose.
That’s not a bad thing.
Someone might have to verify this, but I remember some local conservative talk show host I used to listen to regularly made the point that there are more black people living in America today who either voluntarily immigrated from Africa (or who are descended from voluntary immigrants) than there are direct descendants of slaves.
So the issue isn’t JUST “which white people benefited from slavery” but ALSO “which blacks were harmed by it.”
In either case, you are attempting to remedy a historical unfairness with a current one. Seems pretty stupid to me.
Maybe at Harvard. Cabo Verdeans, Kenyans, and other Africans and their descendants are still a small minority among U.S. Blacks (they constitute about a million people).
Okay, after thinking about this, I remembered his claim wrong.
The claim was specifically that, throughout the sum total of American history, more blacks have voluntarily migrated to America than were brought over via the slave trade.
It’s the “descendants of slaves” that tips the balance. Still an interesting fact (if true) to consider, imho.
Because I’m in a weird mood:
Note that three of the four items Coates mentions (slavery, Jim Crow, Separate but Equal, racist housing policy) are things that the government did. So if there’s to be reparations based on these historical injustices, they should be from the government, not from white Americans per se.
What form should these reparations take? The government could just pay people (raising taxes to get the extra money), but that would mean that in a sense we were rewarding government for its prior bad actions by making it bigger.
Alternatively, since the injustices all involved the government harming blacks by subjecting them to extra regulations that limited their ability to get an education, career, housing, etc., perhaps reparations could take the form of exempting blacks from some current regulations and taxes. So, for example, you might say that blacks would be exempt from all licensing requirements.
Of course, as Bob notes, whites were also hurt by Jim Crow in that they were restricted from being able to do business with blacks in a variety of ways. But in the same fashion, whites would benefit from blacks being exempt from licensing, because they would gain access to lower cost services.
“We discriminated against you before, and sure our current policies are completely ruinous to you, but instead of just cutting it out, we’ll let you open casinos and sell fireworks.”
Why does that sound familiar…
Josiah, have you read Coates’ article?
I have not. Does he suggest something similar?
you might as well read it, you might get a better understanding of the issue.
Two hundred fifty years of slavery. …
Black people are sooo ooold.
Question: You argue that these policies hurt whites, but as these policies were ongoing, didnt whites support them?
does that mean, despite the damage, since they choose to collectively support these policies, that they benefited on net?
I swear, Bob, you get the craziest of counter-arguments that I’ve ever seen. But at least it keeps me sharp (or less dull).
I am not persuaded by the argument for reparations, but in my view one has to be a little bit careful saying the argument isn’t strong because slavery harmed white people economically as well. Assuming for the sake of argument that’s true, no one on this site (in the world?) is claiming that blacks and whites suffered comparably, remotely comparably, or within 10,000 light years of each other in terms of the disaster of slavery. Slavery is pretty indisputably one of the greatest moral crimes of the last 500 years, and American slavery was particularly ugly. Jim Crow, discrimination, etc, are also pretty terrible. That is the argument for reparations. The enormity of he crime demands restitution, and so great was it that it even demands restitution from those who had nothing to do with it to those who have only indirectly suffered from it (and if you think race discrimination in this country is over, try being black and driving a nice car in my neighborhood and see how fast you’re stopped–believe me, it’s fast). Personally, I don’t really agree with the argument,I think, but I’m not sure the strictly economic responses to it have much force, and frankly at times can sound a little callous.
Slavery is pretty indisputably one of the greatest moral crimes of the last 500 years, and American slavery was particularly ugly. … That is the argument for reparations. The enormity of he crime demands restitution, and so great was it that it even demands restitution from those who had nothing to do with it to those who have only indirectly suffered from it …
I realize that the bolded part is what Reparatists are relying on, but it makes zero sense.
Which is why I made the quip about black people being so old; If they died before you were born, then you can’t, even in theory, be culpable for wrong done to them.
Please understand – and this is not directed at you (I’m merely taking advantage of an opportunity provided by your post) – that it is extremely difficult to be nice in response to such reasoning, since the chaos that has come from it can be remedied by applying basic logic.
“The enormity of he crime demands restitution, and so great was it that it even demands restitution from those who had nothing to do with it ”
Excellent idea! Hitler and Stalin’s crimes were so great, that you must be punished for what they did, to make the cosmos go back into balance.
Off with yer head!
I look white, but have Native American ancestry, and one ancestor who was a black slave. Do to my inborn talent, intelligence, and good career choices, I make enough money to put me in the top 10%.
My intuition is that, if reparations were enacted, all of the damage and none of the benefits would accrue to me, due to “white privilege”. That is why this whole idea is a farce.
Oh come on Scott. I’m sure that once a very vague and generic reparations bill is passed, we can trust Congress to work out a fair and equitable solution that certainly WON’T just be a massive hand-out to politically well connected interests paid for by debt and inflation!
In the end, I agree the case for reparations is not persuasive, but to me the argument that a nation which, for example, murdered 10 million people during a war in the most grotesque manner possible, might still, 50 years later, owe a debt to the relatives of those it killed, is not entirely unreasonable. Likewise, the idea that a nation that essentially degraded and destroyed a significant part of a race of people, and oppressed their ancestors for at least 100 years after that (up to and including permitting their senseless murders without consequence, and denying them education, etc., leaving them significantly disadvantaged even today) might owe the living ancestors of that race of people something more than an apology is to me by no means one that “makes no sense” and I do not think is quite so easily disposed of.
What I’m saying is assertions that suggest it is simply nonsensical to consider the issue are I think 1) wrong, and 2) tend to sound like they are minimizing the crime of slavery, which I don’t think is something that should ever be done.
… up to and including permitting their senseless murders without consequence, and denying them education, etc., leaving them significantly disadvantaged even today …
THAT isn’t the result of their ancestors being oppressed, but of CURRENT “Progressive” policies designed to correct a problem that doesn’t exist:
Race and Economics
During the 1930s, there were a number of federal government interventions that changed the black employment picture. The first was the Davis-Bacon Act of 1931, which mandated minimum wages on federally financed or assisted construction projects. During the bill’s legislative debate, the racial objectives were clear. Rep. John Cochran, D-Mo., said he had “received numerous complaints … about Southern contractors employing low-paid colored mechanics getting work and bringing the employees from the South.”
…
American Federation of Labor President William Green said, “Colored labor is being sought to demoralize wage rates.”
…
The National Industrial Recovery Act of 1933 and the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 broadened the number of workers covered by minimum wages, with negative consequences for black employment across a much wider range of industries. Good intentions motivate most Americans in their support for minimum wage laws, but for compassionate public policy, one should examine the laws’ effect. That’s seen by putting oneself in the place of an employer and asking, “If I must pay $7.25 an hour to no matter whom I hire, does it pay me to hire a worker who’s so unfortunate as to have skills that enable him to produce, say, only $4 worth of value an hour?” Most employers would view hiring such a worker as a losing economic proposition; therefore, a minimum wage law discriminates against low-skilled workers by reducing employment opportunity.
When the so-called “Black Community” decides that they no longer want Socialist policies, they will tend to prosper – just like the “race traitors” have already figured out.
guest,
Are you seriously suggesting that the entire history of oppression, unjust discrimination, exploitation and violence, by individuals, by society or communities in general, and by the government, the legal system, etc, including “senseless murders… denying them education”, is the fault of minimum wage laws?
“a problem that doesn’t exist”
Oppression, unjust discrimination, exploitation and violence, are problems that “don’t exist”?
“Are you seriously suggesting that the entire history of oppression, unjust discrimination, exploitation and violence, by individuals, by society or communities in general, and by the government, the legal system, etc, including “senseless murders… denying them education”, is the fault of minimum wage laws?”
No, that is not what he is suggesting. If you honestly think that is what he is suggesting then I would encourage everybody to stop wasting their time trying to have rational conversations with you.
Perhaps you should read guest’s comment again:
“… up to and including permitting their senseless murders without consequence, and denying them education, etc., leaving them significantly disadvantaged even today” …
guest:
“THAT isn’t the result of their ancestors being oppressed, but of CURRENT “Progressive” policies designed to correct a problem that doesn’t exist:”
guest then provides a link to an article about the history of minimum wage laws.
Yes, Guest was making the case that the reason some black people are significantly disadvantaged is because progressive policies, not because their ancestors were oppressed. Then he used the minimum wage law as an example of a progressive policy that harms black people.
He was not “suggesting that the entire history of oppression, unjust discrimination, exploitation and violence, by individuals, by society or communities in general, and by the government, the legal system, etc, including “senseless murders… denying them education”, is the fault of minimum wage laws?”
And if you still can’t see how absurd your question to him is, then there is no hope in having a rational conversation with you.
If I had said “minimum wage laws, and similar ‘progressive’ policies”, would that be OK?
Guest did not mention any other ‘progressive’ policies which he thinks are to blame for the history of black oppression since slavery, other than minimum wage laws.
No, that would not have been OK, but I’m satisfied that there is nothing to gain from further discussing this with you.
I mentioned Progressive policies – plural – then cited a single policy.
I refuse to be more specific – the record speaks for itself.
#AlinskyFail, Philippe:
The Power of Chewing Gum: My 1983 Assessment of Saul Alinsky’s Tactics
We can learn from Alinsky. We must learn how to gum up the works.
Gabby D mentioned it as well, but if there is one thing I have learned from Austrian economics, is that looking at the numbers isn’t enough. Given the widespread support of racist institutions hints that whites at the time felt that those institutions benefited them subjectively, or at least they predicted it would, even if in a strictly financial analysis in hindsight it might not have benefited whites objectively.
In that case, then, you have a group of people that are using the government to aggress routinely against individuals most fundamental property rights. There is no ambiguity here in the word “aggress” in the history of Jim Crow and Slavery. Whether a post hoc analysis shows that they benefited by your standards or not is completely irrelevant. If I pay someone $100 to beat you up everytime you get on the bus, I am on net harmed financially. You would say that I don’t owe you any redress for this aggression though? You go to the cops and not only do they say what I’m doing is legal, but they put in a couple of licks for free. You die destitute and broken (because you can’t get to work if I won’t let you on the bus) and your ghost comes back and tells your kids that they have no right to get reparations from my family for generations of beatings? “Now now, children, Greg suffered financially, too, so leave him and his inherited estate alone”. Why? What legal/moral ground justifies that? Does it make a difference if I pay my government to do it to you, instead of some thug?
Furthermore, the aggression continues today in a more arguable form, with the drug war, racist police profiling, substandard schooling, etc. So people today are not guilt free in supporting the government that does this. Right now I don’t have much incentive personally to change it, but if the true cost of our shared (not just white, but everybody’s) indirect aggression was borne then we’d have incentive to change things. It’s imperfect from a libertarian perspective, and even more so from anarcho-capitalism, but we don’t live in anarcho-capitalism, and this therefore, isn’t an anarcho-capitalist argument. It has to be argued from the standpoint of the governmental framework we are in, imperfect or not.
I’m in favor of reparations. I think anybody whose ancestors suffered in any way because of slavery should be exempt from all taxes for themselves, and for their businesses. I also think any business that hires them should be exempt from all taxes. Who’s with me?
Good one!
I will be for reparations when Ta-Nehisi Coates gets her check and agrees to sign over to me any portion of my taxes used to pay the reparations. I assume that the millions of others like me would feel the same. I have was born after Jim Crow and am completely against the US Government interventions in the housing business. I am sorry for the experience of racism but all of the activities mentioned were not done by me nor my ancestors and even if they were you would have to establish any gains I made from this and ascertain the portion of those gains that can be devoted to the aforementioned activities. In fact they were done by the US Federal Government and as such you can take up your claim with them. If you are successful in your claim against the US Federal Government then I want any portion of my tax money that would go to a recipient returned to me.
Unfortunately a court could honor such claims, but I doubt that any fair arbitrator would do the same.
Here is why freed slaves in the United States deserve reparations.
————————————————————————————–
“Antonio Martinez stood in the hot sun, exhausted from a cross-country journey, and waited. Just 21 years old, he had traveled from Mexico to the U.S. with the promise of a well-paid construction job in California. But now he stood in a field in central Florida, listening to one man pay another man $500 to own him.”
““I realized I had been sold like an animal without any compassion,” Antonio thought at the time, more than 10 years ago.”
“He was right. In modern times, in the United States, Antonio had been sold into slavery in Florida’s tomato fields.”
“These slaves often work for 10-12 hours a day, seven days a week. They are kept in crampt and dirty trailers, constantly monitored, and have wages garnished to pay a debt invented by the trafficker to keep victims enslaved. Many victims face threats to themselves or their families, regular beatings, sexual harassment and rape. They can’t leave, can’t seek help. They are in every way trapped.” – Amanda Kloer, CNN
http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/21/your-tomato-possible-ties-to-slavery/
Here is why freed slaves in the United States deserve reparations.
“On arrival, Maria was dragged into hell. Sandra Bearden used violence and terror to squeeze work and obedience from the child. From early morning till midafternoon, Maria cooked, cleaned, scrubbed, and polished. If Maria dozed off from exhaustion, or when Sandra decided she wasn’t working fast enough, Sandra would blast pepper spray into Maria’s eyes. A broom was broken over the girl’s back and a few days later, a bottle against her head. At one point, Bearden tortured the twelve-year-old by jamming a garden tool up her vagina. That was Maria’s workday; her “time off” was worse.”
“When Maria wasn’t working, Sandra would chain her to a pole in the backyard without food or water. An eight-foot concrete fence kept her hidden from neighbors. After chaining her, Sandra would sometimes force Maria to eat dog feces. Then Maria would be left alone, her arms chained behind her with a padlock, her legs chained and locked together till the next morning, when the work and torture would begin again. Through the long afternoon and night Maria would fade in and out of consciousness from dehydration, and in her hunger she would sometimes scoop dirt into her mouth. Like most slaves in America, Maria was in shock, disoriented, isolated, and dependent. To maintain control, Bearden kept Maria hungry and in pain.”
“About one-third of the handful of slaves freed in the United States each year come to liberty because an average person sees something he or she just can’t ignore. Luckily, one of the Beardens’ neighbors had to do some work on his roof, and that probably saved Maria’s life. Looking down over the high concrete wall into the Bearden’s backyard, the neighbor saw a small girl chained up and whimpering; he called 911.”
“The police found Maria chained hand and foot, covered in cuts and bruises, and suffering from dehydration and exposure. She was too weak to walk and had to be carried to freedom on a stretcher. Her skin was badly burned from days in the sun. (In Laredo, Texas, the average summer temperature is ninety-eight degrees.) Photos taken at the time show one of her eyes bloodied and infected and thick welts and scars on her skin where the chains had cut into her. She had not eaten in four days. The district attorney said, “This is the worst case I’ve ever seen, worse than any murder. It’s tragic all the way around.” Later, at Bearden’s trial, the policeman who found Maria wept. “She was shaking and crying and had a scared look in her eyes. She was in severe pain,” Officer Jay Reece testified. He explained that he had tried to remove the chains from Maria’s arms with bolt cutters but couldn’t. As he tried to move her arm to cut the chains, she twisted and whimpered because she was in so much pain. “I’ve never seen anything like it before,” Reese said, and sitting in the witness box, this policeman began to cry.”
“It is hard to imagine, but Maria was one of the lucky slaves. In America, most slaves spend four to five years in bondage; Maria’s enslavement lasted only seven months. Sandra Bearden was arrested, and the Mexican government brought Maria’s parents up from Vera Cruz. Her father blamed himself for what had happened. “We made a decision that we thought would be good for our child, and look what happened. I made a mistake, truly, and this is all my fault,” he said. Unlike most slaveholders in America, Bearden was caught and convicted. Like most slaves, Maria got nothing, except the fare for the twelve-hour bus ride home. She had just turned thirteen.” – Kevin Bales and Ron Soodalter, The Slave Next Door
This is why freed slaves in the United States deserve reparations.
————————————————————————————–
“Everything seemed normal until they reached Rose’s new home in America. Then the trap closed.”
“The husband and wife showed Rose the jobs they wanted her to do. Soon the jobs filled her day completely, rapidly taking control of her life. Up at six in the morning, Rose had to work until long past midnight. When she began to question her treatment, the beatings began. “They used to hit me,” Rose said. “I couldn’t go for three days without them beating me up.” The smallest accident would lead to violence. “Sometimes I might spill a drink on the floor by mistake. They would hit me for that,” she said. 1 In a strange country, locked up in a strange house far from home, Rose was cut off from help. If she tried to use the phone, she was beaten; if she tried to write a letter, it was taken away from her. “It was just like she was lost in the middle of a forest,” said Louis; “she was completely isolated.””
“Under the complete control of others, subject to physical abuse, paid nothing, working all hours, this fourteen-year-old schoolgirl had become a slave. The promise that she could go to school in America was just the bait used to hook her. In Cameroon her parents received no word from her, only occasional reassuring messages from the family who had enslaved their daughter. The beatings and constant verbal attacks broke Rose’s will, and her life dissolved into a blur of pain, exhaustion, work, abuse, and fear. Rose lived in slavery for two and a half years.”
– Kevin Bales, Ending Slavery: How We Free Today’s Slaves
This is why descendants of slaves in the United States deserve reparations.
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“After Israel Campbell figured out how to meet his quota, Belfer raised Campbell’s requirement to 175 pounds per day. John Brown remembered that ‘as I picked so well at first, more was extracted of me, and if I flagged a minute the whip was applied liberally to keep me up to my mark. By being driven this way, I at last got to pick a hundred and sixty pounds a day,’ after starting at a minimum requirement of 100. Cotton-picking increased because quotas rose. In 1805, Wade Hampton and his henchmen gradually increased their demands on Ball until he was picking 50-odd pounds a day. By the late 1820s, enslavers in Mississippi and Tennessee demanded 100 pounds. Five years later, that total had gone up by another 30 pounds. Hands now moved ‘like a bresh heap afire’–‘as if,’ a Mississippi planter wrote, ‘some new motive power was applied in the process.’ As if, in other words, mechanical engines hummed inside the enslaved, as if the disembodied hands of whites’ language moved by themselves over the cotton plants in the field. By the 1850s, ex-slaves reported, enslavers demanded 200 pounds or more of most slaves on some places, and even 250 on others.” – Edward Baptist, The Half Has Never Been Told, p. 134
Here is why freed slaves in India deserve reparations.
————————————————————————————–
“In the morning at 5 o’clock I wake up, then start to work. Then at night at 12 o’clock we stop working. … Here, you know, here, they [the fingers] are cut. The loom is so tight, then we do like that. Then this finger moves, and here it’s cut. And here also it’s cut. … He had one big stick. … Then if we are not working he beats. … Okay, I’m working I’m working, don’t beat me.” – Slavery: A Global Investigation https://vimeo.com/39383629
Here is why freed slaves in India deserve reparations.
————————————————————————————–
“She was just a schoolgirl when she found herself in Bombay, along with thousands of other girls who are beaten, locked in tiny cages or hidden in attics. Some are forced to have sex with as many as 20 men a day under the watchful eyes of madams and pimps.” “It can take 10 years for a woman to buy her freedom — if she doesn’t first succumb to AIDS, other STDs, complications from repeated abortions, malnourishment, malaria, or TB. Most don’t make it to the age of 40.” – Rebecca Raphael http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132685
This is why freed slaves in India deserve reparations.
————————————————————————————–
“But my father needed some money. He asked his landlord—for whom he had worked his entire life—for some money. The landlord gave him the money but took me in return. He asked my father, “What would your child do in school?” and “How will he feed himself?” He said, “Remove him from school, send him here to look after my cattle and I will give him one meal a day.” That is how I was taken out of school when I was seven years old and I was not allowed to study beyond my first standard. I continued working with the landlord. I got married and my wife and I worked in the fields and at home. Through marrying me, my wife also became a bonded laborer to my landlord. From dawn to midnight, we used to fetch water, clean the utensils, wash clothes, collect firewood and remove cow dung. We also had to prepare the ground for sowing the seeds, transplanting the saplings, nurturing the plants, harvesting the field, and finally husking the grains. The other agricultural laborers, who were lucky not to be bonded, worked much less and earned much more than me.”
“Once, to earn a bit more, I went to work with another landlord. This angered my landlord. He sent his henchmen to fetch me. They brutally assaulted me and verbally abused me during the journey back to my landlord.”
– Keshav Nankar, New Slavery, Second Edition
This is why freed slaves in India deserve reparations.
————————————————————————————–
“Sitara says she was routinely beaten at the brick kiln. Her mother Chamela tears up when she recalls watching her daughter being beaten. “What can you do when you’re in debt?” she says. “Her life was stolen from her.”” – Arwa Damon, Barbara Arvanitidis and Clayton Nagel, http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/07/asia/india-school-slaves/index.html
This is why freed slaves in India deserve reparations.
————————————————————————————–
“Shagir: The brick kiln owner and his supervisor threatened to throw me in the kiln furnace.”
…
“Sanjafi: They took me to work at a brick kiln. I saw people’s thatched huts were being torched and they threw my things in the fire. … One laborer in our group died from being beaten so badly at the brick kiln.”
“Sitara: The slave owner locked us in the office and forced my brother to lick up his spit. We were veru afraod amd threatened. We worked four to five years at that brick kiln.”
“Gopal: We were in very bad conditions. Four to five months we were in slavery, we couldn’t run away. My wife was in critical condition, and even then the brick kiln owner refused to pay us.”
– Face to Face with Slavery – The Movie https://vimeo.com/171953205
This is why freed slaves in Italy deserve reparations.
————————————————————————————–
“Once she was in Turkey, away from her family and friends, her documents were taken from her and she was sold to the first of a series of Albanian pimps. Over the next year she was resold several times, forced into prostitution, paid nothing, and brutally beaten. Ultimately she was smuggled into Italy, where she was picked up by the police and handed over to a non-governmental organization providing support. Angela’s story is common in that she did consent to be taken to Italy for a job as a waitress. Normally such a false offer includes the promise of a valid work and residency permits.” – Kevin Bales, Understanding Global Slavery
This is why freed slaves in Haiti deserve reparations.
————————————————————————————–
“Jean-Robert Cadet was born in Haiti, the son of a wealthy white businessman and a black mother who died when Cadet was only four. His father sent the young Cadet to a former mistress to become a restavec, a child slave. Restavec is a French term that means “staying with,” a term that disguises the reality of slavery. Under his master’s control, Cadet was forced to perform a range of menial tasks; if he made any mistake, he was beaten severely. Unfortunately, this incident of slavery is not unique—there are more than 250,000 restavec child slaves in Haiti. For the most part, these are children of the very poor who are given to well-off families in the hope that they will be given an education and a chance at a better life. Once handed over, most of the children lose all contact with their families and, like the slaves of the past, are sometimes given new names. In many ways, the restavec children are treated worse than the slaves of the past since they cost nothing and their supply is inexhaustible. They receive very little food or food of poor quality. Their health is usually poor and their growth stunted. Girl restavecs are worse off because they are sometimes forced to have sex with the teenage sons of their owners. If they become pregnant, they are thrown into the street. At maturity, most restavec children are thrown out and have to make a living any way they can—shining shoes, gardening, or as prostitutes.”
“As a restavec, Cadet served the family but was not part of it. He slept under the kitchen table or on the back porch. Though a small child, he received no affection or care from his owner. His sole possessions were a tin cup, an aluminum plate, a spoon, and the rags he was given to wear. In the stress and abuse of his situation, Cadet became a regular bed-wetter, which only increased the punishments he was given. Once Cadet’s only friend, another restavec child named Rene, stole two dollars and bought food that he then shared with Cadet. When he was caught, he was whipped severely and then forced to kneel on hot rocks so that he would confess with whom he shared the food. When he did not implicate Cadet, he was sent to the police station for a beating; he returned terribly injured and then disappeared.” – Kevin Bales, New Slavery: Second Edition
This is why freed slaves in the Ivory Coast deserve reparations.
————————————————————————————–
“He invited us to his home to meet 19 young men who had recently been freed from slavery on a cocoa plantation.”
“These are the children you’ve been told about, there are 19 of them. They’ve just been released with the help of Ivorian authorities. These young people were living in true slavery. They worked from dawn until after dusk. Today they look well as they’ve all had haircuts; before they looked pitiful.”
“Why is this boy ill?”
“He just arrived 6 months ago, so he was in the ‘breaking in’ period. Sadly for him his body could not resist the beatings.”
“After one of the young men finally managed to escape, the Consul lead a raid on the plantation, to liberate those still enslaved.”
“They were totally isolated from the world. They were unrecognisable when we found them – from another world. Around 8pm the shed is locked by one of them who had been made the boss. Each one had an old tin to use if they wanted to urinate. There was no question of them leaving the hut during the night. When they ran away they had to be caught by the others. When they are caught they are beaten both morning and evening on the first day. When they can’t take any more they are left. When their wounds have started to heal they are sent back to work. Then they are watched until they become ‘smoother’ – until they accept their fate.”
“The Consul has arranged for they boys to go home to Mali to be reunited with families that may have given up hope of ever seeing them again. For now, they are staying at Consul Mako’s home, beginning to recover from years of psychological as well as physical torture.”
“Our master used us as slaves. He took us there and never paid us a penny. He said if anyone escaped he would be caught and killed. No one dared challenge him, he was too powerful. We were all terrified of him, no one dared escape. If you ran away, he would catch you, tie you up, beat you, then lock you in a hut. They would tie your hands behind your back. Then one person would beat your front and someone else your back.”
“When you’re beaten, your clothes are taken off, and your hands tied. You’re thrown on the floor, and then beaten, beaten really viciouosly. Twice in a day, once in the morning and once in the afternoon.”
“How did they beat you?”
{visual demonstration}
“How old is this one?”
“He’s 18 now.”
“18 now. You’re body is covered in scars. Can you tell us what happened to you now?”
“The work was too hard for me. I couldn’t do it, so I ran away. Then they caught me, brought me back, and beat me.”
“When we were rescued he had been beaten so much he couldn’t walk. After you were beaten your body had cuts and wounds everywhere. Then the flies would infect the wounds, so they’d fill with pus. You had to recover while you worked.”
“In the time that you were working at the plantation, was anybody killed?”
“When he beat somone to the point that he couldn’t move, he took him out of the plantation. He took the person away. We never saw that person again.”
“Was anybody here paid any money for their work?”
“None of us has ever been paid.”
“And how many years did you work on the plantation?”
“I worked there for 5 years, 5 years and 5 months.”
“When you think back on what you had to do these last 5 years, what does it make you feel?”
“When I think of all that suffering, it hurts my heart deeply. I want to say so much, but I just can’t find the words.”
“The cocoa goes into making chocolate. Have you ever tasted chocolate?”
“Mmm-mmm. We have never eaten chocolate.”
“In the rest of the world, millions and millions of people eat chocolate. What would you tell those people?”
“If I had to say something to them, it would not be nice words. They enjoy something I suffered to make; I worked hard for them, but saw no benefit. They are eating my flesh.”
– Slavery: A Global Investigation https://vimeo.com/39383629
This is why freed slaves in the Ivory Coast deserve reparations.
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“The plaintiffs in this case are three victims of child slavery. They were forced to work on Ivorian cocoa plantations for up to fourteen hours per day six days a week, given only scraps of food to eat, and whipped and beaten by overseers. They were locked in small rooms at night and not permitted to leave the plantations, knowing that children who tried to escape would be beaten or tortured. Plaintiff John Doe II witnessed guards cut open the feet of children who attempted to escape, and John Doe III knew that the guards forced failed escapees to drink urine.”
– United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit https://d3bsvxk93brmko.cloudfront.net/datastore/opinions/2014/09/04/10-56739.pdf
This is why freed slaves in Qatar deserve reparations.
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“They promised me $600 a month. But in Delhi [in transit], they tore up my contract and threw it away. On the plane I saw my new contract was for just 900 riyal a month. It was for a construction job. Even then, I didn’t get paid for five months. I took a loan to come here, [but without a salary] I couldn’t pay it back. That’s why I ran away.”
…
“In a cramped room behind the Nepali embassy in Qatar, a large group of migrants have sought shelter from their employer, who failed to pay them for months and is refusing to issue them with the exit permits they need to leave the country.”
“We haven’t been paid between three to eight months. I haven’t been paid for 10 months. After 17 months, I still don’t have my ID card. I came here legally, but now I am illegal.”
“Without ID cards migrants are effectively illegal aliens and can no longer move about freely.”
…
“His ordeal has been so stressful that he has lost all his hair.”
“For two months we had to beg for food. Until now I haven’t even sent one rupee home to my son. We were suffering a lot. But still the manager came and beat me at 2am. We went to the police, but they wouldn’t do anything.”
“We want to leave here safely by any means possible. We have problems. We don’t want to leave without our money. But it’s not worth staying here and risking our lives. We want to live.”
– The Guardian, Revealed: Qatar’s World Cup ‘slaves’, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars-world-cup-slaves
This is why freed slaves in Qatar deserve reparations.
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“His basic salary is stated to be 1100 rials, about 300 US dollars a month. It says he will be provided with decent accommodation, food money, and a ticket home after the 2-year period.”
“Then when we land here the first day, they are in airport, they take all the passport, and they say tomorrow morning you have to arrive in office to sign-in. We we go to the office, they change, another contract, and it’s this one. The basic salary here is 500. You see? Leave salary right here is 100. And this one food allowance is 100. So total salary is 700.”
“So if you were given this contract in Kenya, 700, would you come here?”
“No. No no no no no no no no no not anybody come here. But we land here then, so it’s difficult to go.”
…
“We secretly recorded one health worker. We cannot show the footage, and have changed his voice for his protection.”
“We’ve heard there’s a lot of people dying from heart attacks?”
“Labourers you mean?”
“Yeah.”
“Of course.”
“Why’s that?”
“Too much work.”
“Are they being worked to death?”
“Yes, yes. Also, we have human trafficking here. So too many problems. You know, in the world, who is poor like this, no one cares.”
…
“Our boss is from Kerala, India. He takes part of our salary. If we are paid three thousand, there will be one thousand for us, one thousand for him and one thousand for the company. That’s why he doesn’t allow us to leave. I’d like to do anything else but this. That’s the problem with our boss, he can do whatever he wants with us. His name is Kunhu Kunhu.”
…
“They gave me another contract. 600 rials, basic. And then, I refused. I said, “I’m not signing the contract.” I want to leave. But in the office, they said, “if you don’t like to sign, we’ll cancel it. We’ll give the paper to cancel it.”
“Cancel what?”
“Cancel the contract.”
“And then what will happen to you?”
“I don’t sign it. Because I do not have the money to buy a plane ticket home.”
…
“We’ve been in Qatar two weeks now and quite frankly we’ve found enough evidence of human rights abuses and the breaking of Qatari laws to fill this car. But we’ve focused on four companies. And we’ve printed off some of the evidence that we’ve found. Here’s some contracts that workers have signed promising much more than they’re given. We also have photos of some of the horrendous conditions that they’re living in.”
…
“The company is called Marco.”
“These workers were promised decent pay, accommodation, food allowances, and a paid ticket back home every two years. When they arrived, their passports were taken and their salaries drastically cut. Every promise has been broken. They took out huge loans to come here and now struggle to send any money back home.”
…
“Some of the people here want to leave, but every time they go to the office to ask, they don’t permit them to leave.”
…
“In every camp we’ve been to we hear the same problems. Terrible accommodation, where I’m standing right now there’s a pungent smell of sewage. Workers are being paid far less than they were promised and they don’t have their passports so they can’t go home. But in every camp, we hear new problems as well.”
– The Hidden Brutality of Qatar’s FIFA World Cup Preparations https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdrAd-44LW0
This is why freed slaves in Canada deserve reparations.
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“She is blunt about what would happen if she refused to have sex with anybody.”
“”If you’re not beat up, then you would get raped by a few of them at once,” explains Little.”
– Paula Newton http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/23/world/canada-indigenous-sex-trafficking/index.html
This is why many anti-slavery activists deserve reparations too.
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“There were martyrs to the cause of abolition then, and sadly there are martyrs today. In India, antislavery workers are threatened, beaten, falsely imprisoned, and sometimes killed. In Pakistan, Nepal, and across North and West Africa, they face the same violence. The work of many liberators is disrupted by the need to find safety when the thugs come. On the front lines of liberation, these workers must run for cover every few weeks or months. We can do better than this. We know that when people around the world learn about a prisoner of conscience locked up in a dictatorship, the attention, letters, and pressure brought by average citizens can save the prisoner’s life. When a school or church or town “adopts” a person held unjustly and keeps the bright light of public attention focused, torture and disappearance are much less likely to happen. The liberators who are risking their lives around the world need this same protection. Since they cannot always rely on the normal protections of the police, and sometimes the police are a threat, they need our help. We must identify them by name and do what is necessary to ensure their safety as they bring slaves to freedom. Yes, there will always be risks—theirs is a dangerous job—but we need to help make it as safe as possible.”
– Kevin Bales, Ending Slavery: How We Free Today’s Slaves
This is why many anti-slavery activists in Mauritania deserve reparations.
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“Nine members of the anti-slavery organization Initiative for the Resurgence of the Abolitionist Movement in Mauritania (IRA) have been in incommunicado detention since their arrests. They were charged on 12 July with rebellion, use of violence, attack against the police and agents of justice and membership of an unrecognised organization. They are at risk of ill-treatment while in detention.”
“Amadou Tijane Diop, the third vice president of IRA-Mauritania and Abdallahi Maatalla Seck, Coordinator of Section Sebkha, were arrested by police on 30 June at their home in Nouakchott. The police searched Amadou Tijane Diop’s house and seized his personal documents and laptops. According to his family, he suffers from a heart condition for which he may not be receiving adequate medical treatment while in detention. In the following days, seven other members and supporters of IRA-Mauritania were also arrested, some at their workplace, others at home. Balla Touré, external relations officer, and members Jemal Beylil, Salem Vall, and Moussa Biram were arrested on 1 July. Hamady Lehbouss, spokesperson, Khatri Rahel Mbarkek, President of IRA peace committee, and Ahmed Hamady, treasurer , were arrested on 3 July after organising a press conference calling for the release of their colleagues.”
“None of them has been allowed access to their lawyers or families since their arrest. A member of the national committee of torture prevention mechanism, who was seeking to confirm their whereabouts and their conditions of detention, was also denied access to where they were being held. The nine anti-slavery activists were arrested after communities who were living in a slum in the area of Gazra in Nouakchott for at least 20 years resisted being forcefully moved to another neighbourhood. None of the activists arrested participated in the organisation of the protest neither were they present at the event. The nine activists were transferred to the prison of Nouakchott on 12 July after being charged with rebellion, use of violence, attack against the police and agents of justice and membership of an unrecognised organization.”
– Amnesty International https://www.amnesty.org/download/Documents/AFR3844032016ENGLISH.pdf
This is why many anti-slavery activists in Mauritania deserve reparations.
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“The Mauritanian anti-slavery campaigner Biram Dah Abeid, head of the initiative for the resurgence of the abolitionist movement in Mauritania, has been in custody since 13 December, charged with assaulting two police officers.”
“Human rights organisations have condemned his arbitrary detention and the harassment Abeid has suffered in his struggle against slavery. He was arrested with five other campaigners, on leaving hospital after treatment for head and leg injuries.”
“He had been beaten up by the police a few hours earlier, on the outskirts of the capital. Since then he has been in prison awaiting trial. He is in the high-security jail in Nouakchott, which is mainly used to hold Islamic extremists.”
“The International Federation for Human Rights and the World Organisation Against Torture have condemned “the assault and arrest of Abeid, the only purpose of which is to punish his activities upholding human rights in Mauritania”.”
– Christophe Châtelot https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/04/mauritania-slavery-campaigner-human-rights
This is why freed slaves in Japan deserve reparations.
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“One day in June, at the age of 13, I had to prepare lunch for my parents who were working in the field and so I went to the village well to fetch water. A Japanese garrison soldier surprised me there and took me away, so that my parents never knew what had happened to their daughter. I was taken to the police station in a truck, where I was raped by several policemen. When I shouted, they put socks in my mouth and continued to rape me. The head of the police station hit me in my left eye because I was crying. That day I lost my eyesight in the left eye.”
“After ten days or so, I was taken to the Japanese army garrison barracks in Heysan City. There were around 400 other Korean young girls with me and we had to serve over 5,000 Japanese soldiers as sex slaves everyday—up to forty men per day. Each time I protested, they hit me or stuffed rags in my mouth. One held a matchstick to my private parts until I obeyed him. My private parts were oozing with blood.”
“One Korean girl who was with us once demanded why we had to serve so many, up to 40, men per day. To punish her for her questioning, the Japanese company commander Yamamoto ordered her to be beaten with a sword. While we were watching, they took off her clothes, tied her legs and hands and rolled her over a board with nails until the nails were covered with blood and pieces of her flesh. In the end, they cut off her head. Another Japanese, Yamamoto, told us that, “it’s easy to kill you all, easier than killing dogs.””
“One Korean girl caught a venereal disease from being raped so often and, as a result, over fifty Japanese soldiers were infected. In order to stop the disease from spreading and to “sterilize” the Korean girl, they stuck a hot iron bar in her private parts. Once they took forty of us on a truck far away to a pool filled with water and snakes. The soldiers beat several of the girls, shoved them into the water, heaped earth into the pool and buried them alive.”
“I think over half of the girls who were at the garrison barracks were killed. Twice I tried to run away, but both times we were caught after a few days. We were tortured even more and I was hit on my head so many times that all the scars still remain. They also tattooed me on the inside of my lips, my chest, my stomach and my body. I fainted. When I woke up, I was on a mountainside, presumably left for dead. Of the two girls with me, only Kuk Hae and I survived. A 50-year-old man who lived in the mountains found us, gave us clothes and something to eat. He also helped us to travel back to Korea, where I returned, scarred, barren and with difficulties in speaking, at the age of 18, after five years of serving as a sex slave for the Japanese.”
– Chong Ok Sun, Ending Slavery: How We Free Today’s Slaves
This is why freed slaves in Senegal deserve reparations.
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“One child is being whipped by an instructor for not earning him enough money. Tears run down another’s face. There are prison-bar windows. A shackle on a boy’s ankle.”
“Supposed teachers demand the students spend their days on the streets begging for money. If the students don’t bring back $3 to $4 per day — which is nearly impossible given the number of students asked to do this and the limited resources of people in Senegal — then the students often are beaten or raped, according to Cruz. The photographer told me students also are forced to memorize verses from the Quran and can be beaten for failing to do so.”
– John D. Sutter, http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/17/opinions/cnnphotos-sutter-senegal-slavery/index.html
This is why freed slaves in China deserve reparations.
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“”These people have not been convicted yet,” Wang says. “That is a very abusive situation.””
“”Nobody got paid anything,” he says. “If you didn’t work, you didn’t get food.””
“Or you got beaten.”
“Foster says a group of inmates ran the cell. They spurred workers with punches, kicks or worse.”
“”There was one particular leader during the month of July that was particularly sadistic,” says Foster. “Actually, he had braided a few of the Christmas light cords together. He would come up behind inmates that were working slow and slash them across the back. I can remember him very clearly, him doing it to this boy, who was in my estimation mentally retarded. And he would deliver blows that — right before my eyes — you would see the welts develop.””
– Frank Langfitt, http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/05/29/314597050/u-s-teacher-i-did-seven-months-of-forced-labor-in-a-chinese-jail
This is why freed slaves in China deserve reparations.
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“The man — who goes by the court-assigned pseudonym ZN — says he had spent four years, working seven days a week in a Hong Kong cell phone store, sleeping on the floor and suffering beatings at the hands of his employer. Then his boss sent him back to his native Pakistan without a cent in pay. When he demanded his money, he says, his boss’ associates back in Pakistan threatened to kill him and his family.”
– Pamela Boykoff and Alexandra Field, http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/21/asia/hong-kong-human-trafficking/index.html
This is why freed slaves in the United Kingdom deserve reparations.
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“The jury rejected Gilder’s account after the youngster testified that ‘Leanne pimped me out because she got money over me getting raped’.”
– Damien Gayle http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2182031/Leanne-Gilder-jailed-Mother-pimped-schoolgirl-14-60-plying-crack-cocaine.html
This is why freed slaves in the United Kingdom deserve reparations.
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“For the next few years, Tung was forced to do odd jobs, helping to set up other cannabis houses all over the country, driving from Wales to Scotland, and often living in the van. He was told that the debts to his traffickers had spiralled to £100,000, so at night he was made to work as a prostitute. “I didn’t want to; I escaped, but they found me, beat me and told me bad things would happen to my mum and dad. I was taken from place to place, sometimes to small hotels or houses or even shops, wherever the customer arranged for me to come. There were men and women. I was paid about £100 a month. I didn’t dare to ask about the debt, because every time I asked, I was beaten up.””
– Amelia Gentleman https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/25/trafficked-enslaved-teenagers-tending-uk-cannabis-farms-vietnamese
This is why slaves in Singapore deserve reparations.
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“She lied to me and told me we were going away and we would be happy. I trusted her but she took me away to be sold instead.” – Janet Lim http://news.asiaone.com/news/diva/no-anger-towards-mum-who-sold-her-slave?page=0%2C1
This is why freed slaves in Cambodia deserve reparations.
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“The girl, Kieu, was taken to a hospital and examined by a doctor, who issued her a “certificate of virginity.” She was then delivered to a hotel, where a man raped her for two days.”
“Kieu was 12 years old.”
“”I did not know what the job was,” says Kieu, now 14 and living in a safehouse. She says she returned home from the experience “very heartbroken.” But her ordeal was not over.”
“After the sale of her virginity, her mother had Kieu taken to a brothel where, she says, “they held me like I was in prison.””
“She was kept there for three days, raped by three to six men a day. When she returned home, her mother sent her away for stints in two other brothels, including one 400 kilometers away on the Thai border. When she learned her mother was planning to sell her again, this time for a six-month stretch, she realized she needed to flee her home.”
…
“”Svay Pak is known around the world as a place where pedophiles come to get little girls,” says Brewster, whose organization, Agape International Missions (AIM), has girls as young as four in its care, rescued from traffickers and undergoing rehabilitation in its safehouses.”
“In recent decades, he says, this impoverished fishing village – where a daughter’s virginity is too often seen as a valuable asset for the family – has become a notorious child sex hotspot.”
“”When we came here three years ago and began to live here, 100% of the kids between 8 and 12 were being trafficked,” says Brewster. The local sex industry sweeps up both children from the neighborhood — sold, like Kieu, by their parents – as well as children trafficked in from the countryside, or across the border from Vietnam. “We didn’t believe it until we saw vanload after vanload of kids.””
– Phnom Penh http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2013/12/world/cambodia-child-sex-trade/index.html
This is why freed slaves and anti-slavery activists in Russia deserve reparations.
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“It is a long, dusty drive through the mountains and valleys of Dagestan before the brick factory comes into view, its gassy haze hanging low on an otherwise empty horizon. Somewhere in this maze of kilns and clay is a man who claims he has never been paid for his work and cannot escape. Zakir Ismailov and Alexey Nikitin, activists from the Russian anti-slavery organisation Alternativa, have helped free workers like this many times. They have a standard plan: enter the factory quickly, find the person who needs rescuing, and get out before trouble starts.”
…
““It’s dangerous – really dangerous,” said Zakir, 35. “There have been occasions when people have come to the local shop where I buy food, and asked the shopkeeper to tell me that if I don’t stop saving workers from brick factories, they will kill me and blow up my family.””
– Kate Hodal https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/apr/01/slave-saviours-men-risking-their-lives-to-free-brick-workers-in-dagestan