18
Dec
2017
An Argument About Corporate Consistency
Inspired by this Sumner post, I recently tweeted:
Someone chimed in to say I was an idiot, and that he could obviously reconcile those two propositions.
So I came back and said (paraphrasing), “OK, so if the government keeps cycling back and forth, first raising the corporate tax rate 5 percentages points then cutting it 5 points then raising it 5 points etc., you think prices will go to infinity and wages will go to zero?”
I haven’t checked back yet but I’m pretty sure there won’t be an apology waiting for me.
I say analogies like that all the time and no one ever gets them. The only thing that keeps me sane is reading yours, otherwise I would just think I’m not getting anything right and everybody is right but me.
No, Bob Murphy is keeping you insane, not sane. If you were sane, you wouldn’t be enjoying the writings of a pro-slavery, pro-war, pro-murder, pro-rape monster like him.
Why is Tom Woods leaving anonymous comments on Bob’s blog?
Have you ever apologized for glorifying slavery-causing head taxes by claiming that they are “much more efficient” “in terms of standard economic growth” compared to other types of taxation, or for writing pages and pages of pro-war propaganda on Institute for Energy Research in support of murderous corporations like Shell while dishonestly calling yourself a pacifist, or for falsely claiming on Mises.ca that slave owners “couldn’t be too unreasonable, because frequent physical punishments would reduce the health of the slaves.”
You are unworthy of apologies.
Besides, different corporations will probably react to corporate tax cuts and raises differently depending on the situation.
“… or for falsely claiming on Mises.ca that slave owners “couldn’t be too unreasonable, because frequent physical punishments would reduce the health of the slaves.”
Even violent drug cartels understand that you can’t make profits by killing your customers. Which is why well-to-do cartels try to provide high quality drugs that don’t kill.
Saw that on a drug documentary series. Forgot which one, though.
Slaves are not customers. They have little if any choice, and often no choice, about what to buy. They cannot put their enslavers out of business simply by boycotting them and shopping elsewhere. Slaves are prey, and enslavers are predators who hunt their own species. In other words, enslavers are essentially cannibals.
About 10 million Congolese died due to slavery under King Leopold II of Belgium alone.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=vYo-DO4tr-gC&pg=PA233#v=onepage&q&f=false
King Leopold did this to get rubber and ivory. The rubber went towards making things like bicycles and cars. The bicycles and cars were not sold to the Congolese. They were sold to Americans and other firstworlders. Those were the customers, the Americans and other firstworlders; not the slaves.
Even after King Leopold II when the Belgian government took over, depopulation continued to be an issue in the Congo, in large part because all the work the Congolese were being forced to do for the Belgians took away from time they would have spent farming so they could actually feed themselves. By forcing the Congolese to instead work in mines and cut palm fruit, the Belgians caused starvation. For further details see books by Jules Marchal.
For that matter, enslavers’ customers are cannibals too, albeit unknowingly in many cases. As one freed slave said,
To go over the context of that statement, watch the video from 14:43 to 21:25. The freed slaves said they were not paid (“He took us there and never paid us a penny” @ 17:39, “None of us has ever been paid” @ 20:05), that they were beaten viciously (“When you’re beaten your clothes are taken off, and your hands tied. You’re thrown on the floor, and then beaten, beaten really viciously.” @ 18:13), not allowed to leave (“He said that if anyone escaped he would be caught and killed” @ 17:43, “We were all terrified of him, no one dared escape.” @ 17:57, “If you ran away he would catch you, tie you up, beat you, then lock you in a hut” @ 17:59), someone seems to have been killed (“When he beat someone to the point that he couldn’t move, he took him out of the plantation. He took the person away. We never saw that person again.” @ 19:44), and that they had never eaten chocolate (“We have never eaten chocolate” @ 20:48).
So the customers here are not the slaves, who do not eat chocolate. The customers are firstworlders who can actually afford chocolate. Additionally, since the slaves are not being paid, they can’t afford to buy anything else either. Since they were not allowed to leave, they would not be able to shop around much even if they had received payment. However, they were viciously beaten. They were treated as prey, not as customers.
This is how capitalism makes the poor poorer and the rich richer. The poor are enslaved, robbed, and generally brutalized, so that rich cannibals can have chocolate and other luxury products that are far cheaper and more plentiful than if they had been made voluntarily.
In addition to the Congo, slavery in Brazil also had a very high death rate. Note: the following quotation does not appear to be from an abolitionist. He appears to have simply believed that Brazilian slavery was excessively brutal. We are citing him as a witness, not for his philosophy.
And millions of slaves died from the transatlantic slave trade itself, before even reaching the places the slave traders intended to sell them.
Enslaved prostitutes often end up getting HIV/AIDS. So do many free prostitutes, of course, but enslaved prostitutes do not get to choose the level of risk they would like to take. There are, of course, some cases that don’t quite fit the definition of slavery but are not free from violence either, but it is clear that enslavers are willing to take risks with other people’s bodies that they would not take with their own.
In Thailand, enslaved prostitutes are often held as debt slaves. However, it must be stressed that this debt is involuntary. The are sold to the brothels, and told that they must pay off their price, plus interest. They are also charged rent. Just because they are paying for these things does not make them customers. Customers have the option to choose not to buy something. These slaves do not have the option to walk out of the brothel and stop paying rent.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=djQq6-pZqNcC&pg=PA41#v=onepage&q&f=false
The convict leasing system, a form of slavery that arose in the United States after the Civil War, was also marked by very high levels of brutality.
The quote seems to support Dr. Murphy’s contention on Mises.ca.
“One dies, get another” is an example of slaveholders not being “too unreasonable, because frequent physical punishments would reduce the health of the slaves”???????
Do you think that it is reasonable to work slaves to death so long as they are cheap to replace?????
While slaveholders do usually try to keep slaves alive long enough to earn enough profit off them to buy or capture new slaves, in practice that often isn’t very long when slaves are very cheap and/or if profit margins are very high for some other reason. When a slaveholder controls a large population of slaves, they often have little concern for those who are too sick, disabled, elderly, or too young to do much work.
Even when slaves aren’t worked to death rapidly or killed outright, they are still very often tortured in some way. Pre-Civil War slavery in the United States is considered unusual in that the slave population was sustainable from reproduction, even without the importation of new slaves. However, the amount of torture was still extreme on many plantations.
The following discusses pre-Civil War slavery in the United States.
In addition to the Congo and the transatlantic slave trade, other instances where slavery has overlapped with genocide (or democide or whatever the correct term is) include the Armenian genocide of 1915, the Soviet, Nazis, and Khmer Rouge purges, and the Sudanese civil war in the last part of the twentieth century.
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=-gYpDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA164&dq=%22slavery+and+genocide+coincided%22&hl=en&sa=X&q=%22slavery%20and%20genocide%20coincided%22&f=false#v=snippet&q=%22slavery%20and%20genocide%20coincided%22&f=false
When Bob Murphy writes that slave owners “couldn’t be too unreasonable, because frequent physical punishments would reduce the health of the slaves”, it makes him a holocaust denier, but he denies not just one holocaust, but many holocausts.
Okay, then I think based on what you quoted from Matthew J. Mancini he may also be a denier of many holocausts.
Just to be safe maybe stop posting stuff from him.
Imprisonment is an injury regardless of how you justify it. Slavery itself is unreasonable, regardless of how you treat the slaves.
Well, yes, that’s true, but Bob Murphy does not believe in freedom of movement, and apparently numerous examples of slaves being tortured, raped, killed, and worked to death are insufficient to convince him that people should have freedom of movement. He’s very pro-slavery, pro-rape, pro-genocide, etc.
Furthermore, based on the lie he told that slave holders ““couldn’t be too unreasonable, because frequent physical punishments would reduce the health of the slaves,” it seems Bob Murphy is willing to spread disinformation in order to promote holding people captive, so that they can be enslaved to feed his cannibalistic addiction to luxury products.
Where did Dr. Murphy justify slavery, or claim it was not unreasonable?
In this article he claims that slaveholders can’t be too unreasonable.
The precise quote is:
The argument Captain Picard’s mimic is making is that slave owners are by definition unreasonable, even if they don’t kill, torture, or rape their slaves, because the act of holding someone captive is itself an injury. He’s correct of course, but given that Bob Murphy does not seem to believe in freedom of movement….
Given that Bob Murphy does not seem to believe in freedom of movement, it seemed like a good idea to point out that when people are denied sufficient freedom of movement to run away from people who are torturing, raping, killing, or working them to death, they are very often tortured, raped, killed, or worked to death.
The lack of freedom of movement is a key part of the definition of slavery. So saying that you don’t think people deserve at least sufficient freedom of movement to leave a situation they are unhappy with (for example, one where they are being tortured, raped, or might be killed soon) is tantamount to endorsing slavery.
Furthermore, if you look at the article in which Bob Murphy argues that slavery would allegedly be abolished in an otherwise free market, this is what he quotes his hypothetical slave-freeing entrepreneur as saying.
Working under threat of being forcibly sent back to a plantation where you will be whipped or beaten is not freedom, it is slavery. By attempting to redefine slavery as freedom, Bob Murphy shows that he is pro-slavery.
Way up at the top, Anonymous quoted Robert Murphy saying that slave owners “couldn’t be too unreasonable, because frequent physical punishments would reduce the health of the slaves.”
Then guest replied by saying “Even violent drug cartels understand that you can’t make profits by killing your customers. Which is why well-to-do cartels try to provide high quality drugs that don’t kill.”
So guest was equating reasonable with not killing.
Then Anonymous gave examples of numerous slaves who have been killed by slavery, failing to challenge guest’s assumption that reasonable = not killing.
I’m not disagreeing with Anonymous that there are many people who have died in slavery. But it is wrong to equate reasonable with not killing. Slavery itself is unreasonable.
“… you think prices will go to infinity and wages will go to zero?”
Mmm. I’m going to say yes – until prices go so high as to make alternatives more attractive to consumers.
My answer is based on the idea expressed in the following article that taxes cannot be “passed on” to consumers, and that those businesses that are able to survive charging a higher price can only do so because the taxes have reduced supply by pricing out the competition:
Papa John and “Passing On”
[www]https://mises.org/blog/papa-john-and-passing