Wednesday, December 3, 2008

 

Brad DeLong Doesn't Even Know Who He's Dealing With

UPDATE below.

In this well-reasoned post, Brad DeLong says Mises' Theory of Money and Credit is "readable in a rhetorical-excess-train-wreck mode, for it is also totally bats--- insane." (BTW, because of my charming innocence, upon my first reading I didn't even catch the "bats---" adverb. [You want to say batsh*t is a noun, but I'm pretty sure it functions as an adverb here. Insane is an adjective, and what kind of insane is the book? Why it's batsh*t insane.])

Needless to say, DeLong literally does not offer a single example of why he levels such a strong claim against one of the most important thinkers of the 20th century. (I understand DeLong doesn't consider Mises to be such, but DeLong is wrong on all kinds of stuff. His ignorance is no excuse.) The only work he actually does, besides providing lengthy quotes of Mises, is to claim that Mises misrepresents two of the authors he quotes. (I am not familiar with the passages so I can't say.)

Here is my comment:

Professor DeLong,

Like some of the other readers, I do not see that batsh*ttiness in the quotations you provide above. I am not familiar with the two authors you claim Mises is misrepresenting, but I have never caught Mises quoting people out of context before with writers I know. (In contrast, I think Rothbard was unfair with his enemies on a few occasions so I would be more disposed to believe your interpretation if you had leveled your charge against him.)

The only demonstrable "mistake" in what you quoted is that Mises seems to be saying representative government can't last without the gold standard, and presumably we still have democracy. OK fine, Mises may have overstepped there, just like Hayek in _The Road to Serfdom_ if you take him strictly. But Nazi Germany certainly wouldn't have occurred without the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic, and that wouldn't have happened if the mark had been strictly tied to gold.

Last thing: This book was amazing in what it accomplished. Mises literally integrated micro and macro. His regression theorem solved the "infinite regress" problem and allowed the deployment of subjectivist price theory to units of money. He also provided a theory of the business cycle that, in my opinion, explains what the heck happened with the housing crisis. Not too shabby.

To blow off this book the way you did above would be analogous to me calling Arrow a two-bit math jock who wrote a crazy paper about voting.

One of my former students, Shannon P. (who posts here occasionally), won an award for her paper on this book. Maybe she has something to say?

Oh, if you check out the MR thread that spawned DeLong's ill-advised remarks, you'll see I threw down with some punks there too. It's a wonder I get anything done. "I'm sorry sir, I know I promised you the analysis by 3, but there are so many idiots on the Internet!!"

UPDATE: Someone notified me that my comment had been deleted from DeLong's thread, and lo and behold, he's right. DeLong has a comment near the bottom that says: "OK time to cut this off and prune it down to something useful..." and then after one other guy's (non-useful) comment, it says comments on the thread are closed.

Since there are still plenty of potty jokes (literally) still in the thread, I was initially stunned that he deleted my comment (above). But then I thought, "Well, maybe he just truncated the thread after a certain point, and so it's not that he was picking on me per se. I.e. maybe there are 14 of us whose posts got booted, and I'm only noticing the absence of mine, rather than those of the 13 guys making puns about toilets."

Eh, I'm still suspicious. If you look at the time stamps of DeLong's "OK time to cut this off" (6:34pm PST) and my original post here on Free Advice (which was 8:32 pm EST), there was about an hour gap. Now it's possible that what happened is a bunch of Austrians flooded his thread with negative remarks, because I tipped off a Listserv about it right before I posted my own response.

In any event, my opinion of DeLong has sunk even further. I can't even imagine posting a thread here at Free Advice saying, "Krugman is batsh** insane" and then just quoting him, and then deleting the comments halfway through when angry Krugmanites show up to defend his honor. In particular, look at how polite my comment above was! I bent over backwards to show I wasn't giving a knee jerk "well shut up you socialist!!" response.

C'mon Professor DeLong, even Bill O'Reilly ends his show by reading hostile viewer mail. If you're going to title a post, "When Reactionary Goldbug Austrian Plumber-Economists Attack!!" common blogosphere ethics demand that you allow the reactionary goldbug Austrians their say in the comments, particularly if, after your pruning, you are going to retain such "useful" comments as "Even an Austrian might wonder about a list in which _Theory of Money and Credit_ follows three books about shit." and "A favorite fun fact: the von Mises Institute is a non-profit organization. Apparently, Austrian economics cannot compete in the commercial free market." (Those comments occur in the thread about 3 from the top.)



Comments:
Well I enjoyed the passage he pasted in. In fact I found it to be edge-of-my-seat exhilarating. (BTW, you might think the edge of my seat is a noun, but I was actually using it as an adverb.)
 
I spent half my life correcting idiots on the internet... Thankfully I found Austrian and free market blogs to post in.
 
The Blackadder Says:

Looks like your comment didn't survive DeLong's "pruning." Surprise surprise.
 
At First, I was confused at how DeLong could be critisizing Mises for critiquing Keynes and the New Deal because The Theory of Money and Credit was published in 1912. I suppose in subsequent editions Mises added some commentary.

It is rather clear that DeLong has never read Mises and just thinks anyone who suggests gold is a crank (a very scholarly investigation on DeLong's part.) I must admit, I thought all the talk of gold was silly until I read hte scholarly discussions of the topic.

DeLong is irresponsible.
 
I was about to leave a brilliant comment when DeLong shut them down. What could he possibly be afraid of? Those Keynesians are something to behold. All they can muster are either ad hominem attacks or swinging at strawmen.
 
Re arguments on the web :)
http://xkcd.com/386/
 
Fiatch, I was going to post the same thing ;)

As for how "well reasoned" and "pounding" (via Mises Blog) of Mises in DeLong's post...I don't get it.

How is an ad hominem attack followed by a quote of the author anything remotely close to deserving of that characterization?

Even a 4 year old can exclaim "Eww Poo!" and rip out a page of a book and paste it.

I took a only a 5 minute tour of Delong's "Egregious Moderation" and found some of his Reality Based insights "It is not just dangerous to have Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld at the head of this country's executive branch, it is unpatriotic not to call for their immediate removal." and Bush's interrogation techniques aren't to fight terrorism but, quoting Matthew Yglesias (and even his commenter!) "These are the methods that have historically been deployed by authoritarian regimes looking to generate false confessions (think the Spanish Inquisition or Stalin) for the purpose of cowing the population into submission, they're not real investigative techniques.

Comments: While I agree, your analysis only is correct if the purpose of the torture was to gain information to stop terrorist attacks. It's clear instead that the real purpose was to satisfy certain abnormal psychological needs by members of the administration and their supporters to look "tough" and prove to the terrorists that we can be just as inhuman as they can."

I agree Bush should have been impeached but never believed he would "have twenty Republican senators on board. I cannot understand why there are not twenty Republican senators on board"

Look while I *agree* that Bush should have been impeached I think its batsh*t crazy to actually believe it would happen (and be clueless 20 Republican senators wouldn't support it!) and the "psychological analysis" portion is frankly Black Helicopter territory.

And that's just 5 minutes with a "Bush" search query. I am confident a more exhaustive search would reveal a pile of Delong batsh*ttiness. Mises can at least point to the hyperinflation and rise the Third Reich as a precedent.
 
..and Nixon and his fascist wage and price controls had nothing to with inflation, no, Nixon (who literally abolished the last vestiges of the gold standard) had everything to do "sound money" and "representative government". What a hack! If this turns into a real debate I suggest Bob Murphy and others compare Delong's prescriptions of historic deficits and inflation to the THUMPING Mike Norman--with the same scoffing, belittling, and economic philosophy--took at the hands of Austrian analyst Peter Schiff a year ago. See the "Peter Schiff was Right" video on youtube (which I posted earlier on this blog.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw) and more importantly this amazing debate about the Great Depression where Schiff tells Norman (again still laughing) to read Rothbard's America's Great Depression on Fox(!). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-qWILwGC8U). Okay I think I'm done with ranting...Sorry Bob Murphy...but definitely watch that last video!
 
The Blackadder Says:

Deleting comments is something of a bad habit with DeLong. He says it's in order to keep the discussion at a high intellectual level, but a comparison of the comments he chooses to leave with the comments he chooses to delete (some examples of which can be found in this thread starting around October 29, 1:02 P.M.) suggests that this isn't really the case.
 
Bob, your comment is civil and substantive. I suggest you email it directly to DeLong, and re-run this post on the LVMI blog
 
Professor Murphy,

No, DeLong deleted your comment specifically. DeLong has deleted many of my comments in the past, and I am rarely uncivil in any forum. Mr. DeLong has a long reputation for such behavior. I consider the man the biggest coward in the field of economics. Contrast his behavior with that of people like Tyler Cowen- what a difference in character!

Yancey Ward
 
Although our comments were deleted, that was fun. We need to swarm comment sections more often.
 
Delong deleted four different commenters specifically from that thread. He also deleted all mine from all his other threads.

When you can't stand the heat you get out of the kitchen. Delong does this by deleting comments he isn't intellectually capable of handling.
 
Bob Murphy,

I suggest you read this excellent criticism of DeLong's quotes.

This article shows that you apologized for Mises prematurely when you wrote: "The only demonstrable "mistake" in what you quoted is that Mises seems to be saying representative government can't last without the gold standard, and presumably we still have democracy. OK fine, Mises may have overstepped there ..."

Mises's sentence when in context doesn't mean the same thing as it seems out of context.
 
Robert Wenzel over at "Economic Policy Journal" gives Brad De Long a bucketing , see here.

Apparently no one told Brad that people in glass houses should never throw stones.
 
Brian Macker's recommendation is truly excellent. Thanks for highlighting it Brian. A great demonstration of Mises' intellectual depth. The passages about the costs to conventional liberal democracy of abolishing the gold standard are both profound and subtle, even if Brad DeLong wants to reach for the most superficial analysis.
 
There are more example DeLong's strange use of the English language. Once he accused someone of "writing with a forked tongue". I know you still kan speak with a forked tongue, but writing? How do you write with a tongue, let alone a forked one?

And look at the title of his weblog. Once it was: "grasping reality with both hands". You can either grasp reality or you can grab something material with your hands, but grasping reality with hands? And according to DeLong a "two-handed look at the World" is possible. How do you look with your hands?
 
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